Virginia looking to make firearms training a class 5 felony

Welcome to ArizonaShooting.org!

Join today!

Welcome! You have been invited by Muzzle Flash to join our community. Please click here to register.
TheAccountant said:
Hunter said:
Did I read that wrong, or are they looking to make ALL self defense classes illegal? Teaching a student in the Marshall Arts can cause injury or death. Rape prevention classes also teach women how to cause injury to the attacker to escape. CCW classes?

And the penalty makes clear they only want money.
Yes. You read it all entirely wrong. Stay off Infowars and you may read things correctly.

Mr. Accountant
Spent a few minutes going over your posts and realized you seem to be good at research. I guess I missed the part about this particular being amended and section 3 added to existing law. My bad.

But I have 2 questions

1. Is the Constitution and Bill of Rights superior to state statute's and USC? As in, do I have a right to assemble friends with weapons and peacefully train, even if politicians and soccer moms get scared

2. Are you a paid cooler?
 
He's more than a cooler. And you're wasting your time trying to converse with him. His reality is colored by his delusion of self importance, and blinds him to what anyone says without their post being altered, by that self important filter.

Another possible candidate for my inglorious foe/ignore list !
 
shooter444 said:
Another possible candidate for my inglorious foe/ignore list !

Looks like someone is going to be stepping up in the internet world.
Another proud member of Levermans ( AKA shooter444 ) foe list.
 
Hunter said:
TheAccountant said:
Hunter said:
Did I read that wrong, or are they looking to make ALL self defense classes illegal? Teaching a student in the Marshall Arts can cause injury or death. Rape prevention classes also teach women how to cause injury to the attacker to escape. CCW classes?

And the penalty makes clear they only want money.
Yes. You read it all entirely wrong. Stay off Infowars and you may read things correctly.

Mr. Accountant
Spent a few minutes going over your posts and realized you seem to be good at research. I guess I missed the part about this particular being amended and section 3 added to existing law. My bad.

But I have 2 questions

1. Is the Constitution and Bill of Rights superior to state statute's and USC? As in, do I have a right to assemble friends with weapons and peacefully train, even if politicians and soccer moms get scared

2. Are you a paid cooler?

It has nothing to do with being good with research. It has everything to do with verifying facts. Instead of clicking on the link that was provided in the OP and reading the amendment (in bright red text), you clicked on Infowars and regurgitated what that jackass Alex Jones had to say about it. Would you rather not read facts and form your own opinions?

1. Read my post again. I was actually the first one to call out the third paragraph, which is the only new paragraph in it. My point was it wasn't the "deep state" trying to outlaw firearms training as everyone else had ranted, but rather a nonsensical response to the nutjobs in Charlottesville that tied their racist BS to gun ownership.

2. No, I'm a rational human being that forms his own thoughts based on the best information available versus talking heads with their own agenda telling me what to think. I'm an Arizona native. I'm a firearms enthusiast. I'm sick and tired of idiots continuing to give the left more ammunition to make the firearms community look like a bunch of clowns.
 
To save space, why not just list those members who are NOT on leverman's "la la la I can't hear you" list?
 
What shall we name your straw man?

You said this bill was just the tip of the iceberg. Not only does the bill not outlaw what you say it does, but it was passed 32 years ago. Your predictions of impending doom haven't come true in 30+ years, so obviously you're not even close to being right.
 

Attachments

  • Jkwpbhs.jpg
    Jkwpbhs.jpg
    459.7 KB · Views: 10,089
There it is...classic non-researcher. Too bad you don't get your news from real sources. Mine was.
 
It's not just this particular bill to amend that is concerning. It's all the other bills that are in the pipeline in Virginia. Every time I come on to a gun forum there's always the guy (probably a paid troll) that will spout the (don't worry it's not that big a deal line); spreading lies and misinformation. They always invoke the (you're a bunch of Alex Jones conspiracy theorists crap). If he is a paid troll, he can feel free to piss off. Meanwhile the 2nd amendment is being killed with the death by a thousand cuts all across the country. AZ is in the crosshairs, and I'm damn concerned. Jesus, as I type this I can hear Bloomturd on TV on CBS in the other room talking his anti gun bullshit. This clown is spending hundreds of millions to get Democrats elected everywhere, and try to buy the presidency and do his best to destroy the constitution.
 
shooter444 said:
Pale Rider said:
You can bet Bloomy is licking his chops to completely turn AZ next. When it happens what are you going to do?

I believe there are only two options,... compliance,... or, resistance.

Most every one I talk to says they'd resist and not comply in any way. That's great, but if you have a "banned firearm" it will end up being a safe queen. If you ever tried to use it and some law enforcer sees you with it, you'd end being convicted of a felony, in jail, and lose all your firearms.
 
Then the thing to do is make it painful for them to arrest anyone for not complying. After you do it a couple of times, they'll stop trying.
 
Pale Rider said:
shooter444 said:
Pale Rider said:
You can bet Bloomy is licking his chops to completely turn AZ next. When it happens what are you going to do?

I believe there are only two options,... compliance,... or, resistance.

Most every one I talk to says they'd resist and not comply in any way. That's great, but if you have a "banned firearm" it will end up being a safe queen. [glow=red]If you ever tried to use it and some law enforcer sees you with it, you'd end being convicted of a felony, in jail, and lose all your firearms.[/glow]

Agreed,... unless the individual decides to resist infringement, which is a Constitutional legal action. I could go on, but, I prefer to just quote much wiser men in history, with their profound and ever lasting opinions! Here are some of my favorites,... enjoy!

----------------------------

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788


"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” – Tenth Amendment, 1791

“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.” – James Madison, Federalist 84, 1788

“The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.” – James Madison, Federalist 47, 1788

“A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.” – James Madison, Federalist 51, 1788

“Pure democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” – James Madison, Federalist 10, 1787

“I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master.” – Thomas Jefferson, Letter to David Hartley, 1787

“We may define a republic to be … a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure for a limited period, or during good behavior.” – James Madison, Federalist 39, 1788

“Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government which impartially secures to every man whatever is his own.” – James Madison, Essay on Property, 1792

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
 
Miker12 said:
There it is...classic non-researcher. Too bad you don't get your news from real sources. Mine was.

Your meme was from a "real" news source? What exactly do it think the conspiracy was there? Did you happen to read the facts of the case from your "real" news source?
 
Pale Rider said:
It's not just this particular bill to amend that is concerning. It's all the other bills that are in the pipeline in Virginia. Every time I come on to a gun forum there's always the guy (probably a paid troll) that will spout the (don't worry it's not that big a deal line); spreading lies and misinformation. They always invoke the (you're a bunch of Alex Jones conspiracy theorists crap). If he is a paid troll, he can feel free to piss off. Meanwhile the 2nd amendment is being killed with the death by a thousand cuts all across the country. AZ is in the crosshairs, and I'm damn concerned. Jesus, as I type this I can hear Bloomturd on TV on CBS in the other room talking his anti gun bullshit. This clown is spending hundreds of millions to get Democrats elected everywhere, and try to buy the presidency and do his best to destroy the constitution.

Anyone who disagrees with you is a paid troll? I just pointed out that the bill everyone was getting their panties in a twist over and proclaiming was the end of the world had been on the books for over 30 years. What exactly is whining and crying on a gun forum about a law that's 30 years old doing to protect AZ gun rights?

And yes, Alex Jones is an absolute moron.
 
[glow=red]"Anyone who disagrees with you is a paid troll?"[/glow]

Actually, I believe Pale Rider is only one of three, if memory serves me, that believe you to be of troll mentality. Given more time,... I believe there will be more added, to this opinion.
 
I did say "if", but if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's probably a f**kin duck, unless others can verify it's not. That's one of the problems with the internet, anyone can go to a forum and claim to be whatever they want. Hell, there's a rumor going around that there is a gun forum that was started by a clown that was being paid by an anti gun organization to be astro-turf and spread misinformation. It's probably just a rumor, but when I looked the place over; the owner was always spreading bullshit to the point of calling conservatives names and even defending Obunghole and his appointees. It didn't pass the smell test in my opinion, and there's no reason to waste time on a place like that. There is a war on over the 2nd amendment and the jackasses like Bloomturd are dead serious, and people better wake the hell up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkC02y69yKw
 
S444, and Flash, unless there is a full blown resistance to the unconstitutional laws; you'll just end up being a casualty when the SWAT team shows up.
 
Pale Rider said:
I did say "if", but if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's probably a f**kin duck, unless others can verify it's not. That's one of the problems with the internet, anyone can go to a forum and claim to be whatever they want. Hell, there's a rumor going around that there is a gun forum that was started by a clown that was being paid by an anti gun organization to be astro-turf and spread misinformation. It's probably just a rumor, but when I looked the place over; the owner was always spreading bullshit to the point of calling conservatives names and even defending Obunghole and his appointees. It didn't pass the smell test in my opinion, and there's no reason to waste time on a place like that. There is a war on over the 2nd amendment and the jackasses like Bloomturd are dead serious, and people better wake the hell up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkC02y69yKw

Others come on here and parrot the opinions from pure propaganda sites. I express my own opinions. Who is the troll? :shifty:
 
Pale Rider said:
S444, and Flash, unless there is a full blown resistance to the unconstitutional laws; you'll just end up being a casualty when the SWAT team shows up.

Think so? I don't. Don't need a full blown resistance, all you need is a few small groups of people who have the training, experience, expertise and willingness to demonstrate what a small unit who knows what it's doing can do. I've seen hours of SWAT training, hours of SWAT competitions and SWAT in action against people who don't know they're coming, have no training, experience or expertise.

They don't really worry me too much.
 
Pale Rider, as I am sure you are aware of, and, as Flash is,... most major conflicts start with someone taking the first shot,... and,... someone receiving the first shot.

It's just the way it is, and, as history has recorded,... such,... is fact.

"In April 1775 British soldiers, called lobsterbacks because of their red coats, and minutemen—the colonists' militia—exchanged gunfire at Lexington and Concord in Massachusetts. Described as [glow=red]"the shot heard round the world," it signaled the start of the American Revolution [/glow]and led to the creation of a new nation."

"In 1770, Crispus Attucks, a black man, became [glow=red]the first casualty of the American Revolution[/glow] when he was shot and killed in what became known as the Boston Massacre."

"A century ago this Saturday on a street corner in Sarajevo, Gavrilo Princip fired [glow=red]the shot that started World War I[/glow] when he killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand."
 
Back
Top