Thoughts and input on Ford 6.0 Powerstroke

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One point that I am stuck on is that although you have to pay more for maintenance, they seem to go for hundreds of thousand miles, 200,000-300,000 miles is not uncommon. Gas engines are hard pressed to meet that longevity.

I have a Titan with just over 200,000 miles and if it were a 4x4, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unfortunately the used 4x4 Titans cost as much as a used F-250, which is my dilemma.

 

[XJThrottle]

So basically what I get out of this thread is that , you have to dump a ton of money into your diesel if you want a good engine.
It doesn't make sense to me , especially when most people that have them , really don't need them.

No, you don't have to poor money into them if you don't start with one that is known to be problematic.

The second gen DMAX (04.5+) has a different injector design.

The Ford 6.7 is solid. They did way with ALL the other engines in their F650/750 line. No more CAT or Cummins. They use the same eng/trans as the lighter trucks (de-rated for the commercial line). Ford put their full faith in this package.

Cummins. Well, I won't even rent a Dodge.....

 

[Rock Hardson]

So basically what I get out of this thread is that , you have to dump a ton of money into your diesel if you want a good engine.
It doesn't make sense to me , especially when most people that have them , really don't need them.

That is not necessarily true. I guess you didn't read the part of the only things that went wrong with my truck in the last 11 years of my ownership.

To clairify, I am bone stock from the factory with the exception of a turbo back exhaust, and a custom tune with almost 100,000 miles on a 15 year old truck. If any of the problems were to happen, I would think that would have already happened within the first 100,000 miles. I realize it could still possibly happen at any time, but I feel like I got a good one. I don't beat on my truck, but I know I have seen 27 lbs of boost a couple of times and it will flat sh!t and get.

My truck has been very reliable and good to me. Like I said, I would hop in it without any compunction and drive it across country at anytime and it will pull a house off of it's foundation and drag it down the street if I want it too.

I would love to have a 4x4 Ford Excursion with a 6.0 Powerstroke. Those things hold their value(as do the 7.3 Powerstrokes). I would never own a Ford V10 anything. I don't like the idea of 8 mpg running unloaded or loaded.

ETA: I forgot to add in my original reply that my truck is also 4x4

Duramax(made by Isuzu) diesels are nice, but Chevy trucks suck. Cummins is a nice diesel, but Dodge trucks are so so. JMO

 

[Suck My Glock]

The essential problem is that Ford took motors that were originally designed for tame commercial use in everyday delivery trucks, and then in an effort to cater to the ever increasing demand to be bigger and badder than the next guy, hotrodded them to produce more horsepower and torque than they were meant for. The 6.0 from International/Navistar, when used in busses and such, is only set up to about 235 horses. In the F250/F350 series, Ford punched it up to 325! Their logic was that in the light trucks, it wouldn't be likely to get pushed and abused enough to over-stress the mods tolerances. But they under-estimated how inherently destructive and lead-footed American 20-somethings are, in addition to having not properly engineered the modifications. Essentially, they didn't properly engineer for the dissipation and carrying away of the heat generated by the power generated. Heat is the enemy of any motor,...but diesels generate more that gas motors do. Especially when towing or otherwise under load. Aside from the wrong type of head bolts used which could stretch and allow popping of gaskets, just about all of the 6.0s problems are heat-related failures.

By comparison, the same basic motor put in the vans was "detuned" to essentially the stock performance of the commercial versions International put in busses and medium-duty box trucks, at about only 235 horses. The reason was the more cramped engine bay in the E-series vans was already known to not allow as much air flow as the bigger F-series truck engine bays. So they correctly predicted that the boosted truck specs model would disasterously self-destruct from heat issues if crammed in the space-challenged van. As a result, the vans have not had as many instances of failures. The vans would usually not tow, and the drivers were usually not stupid kids.

Ford's problem was, essentially, outsourcing engine design. International/Navistar took a motor that worked perfectly fine for what THEY sought to make it do, and FORD trusted them to hotrod it to do what FORD wanted it to do, in a more confined space unlikely to dispense with heat, sold to (usually) less professional/careful drivers.

In my opinion (for whatever its worth),...

Best diesel motor = Cummins (Dodge)
Best auto transmission = Allison (GM)
Best "truck" (body and suspension) = Ford

Worst diesel motor = 6.4 Ford/Navistar
Worst auto transmission = Dodge
Worst "truck" (body and suspension) = Dodge

You just can't get the best in every category without serious investment in upgrading and hardening. Most folks have to take their pick of which is most important to themselves and their situation. In my opinion, the best middle-ground that would serve me overall is a Duramax Chevy or GMC. But they are not without problems either, and if the particular one you get was previously abused and not maintained well by some kid who thrashed it,...it could easily be a money pit as deep as any 6.0 Ford basket case.

The key is how well maintained and respected any truck has been by previous owners. A seller who has maintained records and can show they conscientiously took care of it is what you want to find. (And NEVER trust any dealer. They do not keep any records that come with a truck they take in, and they always deep clean away anything that would give evidence of problems you need to be aware of. Buy ONLY from an individual, preferably the original first purchaser.)

 

[Rock Hardson]

Best diesel motor = Cummins (Dodge)
Best auto transmission = Allison (GM)
Best "truck" (body and suspension) = Ford

Worst diesel motor = 6.4 Ford/Navistar
Worst auto transmission = Dodge
Worst "truck" (body and suspension) =Chevy-- worst riding suspension and their IFS is weak and sucks. Why they don't have solid front axles on their 4x4 2500's and 3500's is beyond me.

 

[Rock Hardson]

My truck sounds exactly like this

[media]https://youtu.be/V2FVy5nJzTU[/media]

 

[Rock Hardson]

 

[Steve_In_29]

So basically what I get out of this thread is that , you have to dump a ton of money into your diesel if you want a good engine.
It doesn't make sense to me , especially when most people that have them , really don't need them.

Did you miss the part where I said, 12 years and 107K miles with no breakage?

Then what broke was an injector came apart, which was a freak thing and not something the 6.0 is known for having to worry about.

 

[Steve_In_29]

 

[redj]

Sorry if I offended anyone.
I am sure there are some out there that haven't had problems , but all you have to do is google 6.0 Powerstroke and you will find lots of sites and posts with people talking about the problems they have had and how much money it will take to make a 6.0 dependable.

Steve_in_29 you even said in your very first post to have it bullet proofed.
That is not cheap if you do it right.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Sorry if I offended anyone.
I am sure there are some out there that haven't had problems , but all you have to do is google 6.0 Powerstroke and you will find lots of sites and posts with people talking about the problems they have had and how much money it will take to make a 6.0 dependable.

Steve_in_29 you even said in your very first post to have it bullet proofed.
That is not cheap if you do it right.

Yes I did but you can buy the 6.0 cheap now (they are 12 years old at the newest after all) and adding the cost of bulletproofing (if it wasn't already done) still gets you into the truck for a WAY less then buying something new. You also avoid the smog crap of newer trucks. Chevys and Dodges have their own issues with their trucks so nothing is perfect.

Yet there are a million+(?) of these in Super Duties with no issues and what another million(?) of the engines in school buses, etc, that have had no issues at all. The engine is a good engine, it was just stressed due to the TTY bolts and Ford adding another 100hp with their own tuning.

Also many owners simply didn't understand that unlike previous engines you couldn't neglect oil changes on the 6.0. Almost zero owners knew that until recently the ONLY oil that met Ford's requirement was the older "CJ" standard. I just saw a promo for the new 3rd Gen 6.7 (2020) and the engine's oil fill cap was still marked "CJ" and not the newer "CK". For Ford diesel use the oil has to state it meets Ford's "WSS-M2C171-F1" spec. There might be others but afaik only the newest Rotella CK formulations do and have it on the label.

Also there are issues with aftermarket oil filters. Originally every brand of filter for the 6.0 was made in the same plant in Germany. However at some point Ford started enforcing it's patent and the after market had to make varying changes to their filter for the 6.0. Some to the extent it required a replacement (taller) cap for the filter housing. That an unwitting buyer of a used truck might not be aware needed only that specific company's filter and installing anything else resulted in the bypass valve being constantly open.

Major Issues:
Harness chaffing - Pretty much unheard of in 05/06/07

Clogged oil coolers - Chemical flush and use CAT EC1 coolant with new cooler. A big part of the issues were caused by Ford going with their own coolant instead of the IH spec'ed type. If you insist on staying with Ford Gold then flush and refill about every 30-50K miles.

Failed EGR cooler - Pretty much taken care of by the coolant switch or a delete if you want.

Headgaskets - Some head gasket failures are now thought to have been due to Ford providing a radiator cap that wasn't up to the task (Ford redesigned it later). Install head studs, (reported failures after studding are usually due to the shop failing to prep the heads properly before instalation).

The only real mandatory "fix" should be properly installed head studs. As the causes behind the early 6.0 failures have been worked out it has been shown that you don't necessarily need the full on BP treatment. So I guess I should have been more specific.

 

[redj]

You can spend your money any way you want but for the average person a diesel makes no sense at all.
Most of the people I see driving diesels have no real need for them.
As far as I am concerned unless you are pulling heavy loads constantly they are a waist of money .

This is just my opinion. I am not going to argue the point.

 

[Rock Hardson]

You can spend your money any way you want but for the average person a diesel makes no sense at all.
Most of the people I see driving diesels have no real need for them.
As far as I am concerned unless you are pulling heavy loads constantly[highlight=yellow] they are a waist of money[/highlight] .

This is just my opinion. I am not going to argue the point.

 

[gunsnboobs]

So basically what I get out of this thread is that , you have to dump a ton of money into your diesel if you want a good engine.
It doesn't make sense to me , especially when most people that have them , really don't need them.

No, you don't have to poor money into them if you don't start with one that is known to be problematic.

The second gen DMAX (04.5+) has a different injector design.

The Ford 6.7 is solid. They did way with ALL the other engines in their F650/750 line. No more CAT or Cummins. They use the same eng/trans as the lighter trucks (de-rated for the commercial line). Ford put their full faith in this package.

Cummins. Well, I won't even rent a Dodge.....

THat's funny because you know ALL the problems with Cummins are:
1st gen: KDP(killer dowel pin) easy cheap fix.
2nd gen: 53 block, easy to check and avoid.
3rd gen; Possible ecm problems as truck gets older.

I've had all 3 of these and wouldn't own anything else, they seem to come bullet proofed out of the gate.

6.7 went downhill from there...

 

[XJThrottle]

I'm aware of the inherent issues of the various 5.9s. But, you apparently missed my point.

The problem with a Cummins isn't the engine. It's the sh!t wrapper in comes in.

 

[gunsnboobs]

I'm aware of the inherent issues of the various 5.9s. But, you apparently missed my point.

The problem with a Cummins isn't the engine. It's the sh!t wrapper in comes in.

And you apparently missed the point he was asking about the 6.0 not the rest of the "sh!t wrapper" of the truck and you bad mouthed the dodge as a whole.

 

[XJThrottle]

His question was diesels in general, and the assumed necessity to spend a bunch to make them reliable. You came to the rescue for Dodge (Cummins).

Every day the sun comes up I'll talk sh!t about Dodge.

 

[Steve_In_29]

My personal opinion is that if you aren't pulling a heavy load or on the highway a lot , a gas engine is a better choice.
I also like to buy the biggest gas engine available.
All my trucks ( all Ford ) have gas engines and will pull anything I want them too and I pull some pretty heavy trailers.
I have over 250,000 miles on one of them and it still runs just fine.

All my trucks have the 5.4 and will tow anything I put behind them. I have pulled a tractor up to Show Low more than once and they pull it just fine.
If you don't mind getting 8 miles a gallon on a good day then a V10 is fine. Not to mention the extra cost for maintenance.

The 5.4 is not the biggest gas engine available.

"Pull it just fine"...as in 30 mph in 2nd gear you mean?

 

[Steve_In_29]

THat's funny because you know ALL the problems with Cummins are:
1st gen: KDP(killer dowel pin) easy cheap fix.
2nd gen: 53 block, easy to check and avoid.
3rd gen; Possible ecm problems as truck gets older.

I've had all 3 of these and wouldn't own anything else, they seem to come bullet proofed out of the gate.

6.7 went downhill from there...

Yep solid engine....CRAPPY truck. Instead of putting money into the engine you put $5K into the transmission. Though the rest of the truck falls apart anyways.

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

My personal opinion is that if you aren't pulling a heavy load or on the highway a lot , a gas engine is a better choice.
I also like to buy the biggest gas engine available.
All my trucks ( all Ford ) have gas engines and will pull anything I want them too and I pull some pretty heavy trailers.
I have over 250,000 miles on one of them and it still runs just fine.

All my trucks have the 5.4 and will tow anything I put behind them. I have pulled a tractor up to Show Low more than once and they pull it just fine.
If you don't mind getting 8 miles a gallon on a good day then a V10 is fine. Not to mention the extra cost for maintenance.

The 5.4 is not the biggest gas engine available.

"Pull it just fine"...as in 30 mph in 2nd gear you mean?

Whithout going to a V10 ( which I said I would not buy ) a 5.4 was the largest V8 engine available in the trucks I have.
As far as pulling , I have never had a problem pulling anything I put behind them and I do pull some very heavy loads.

30 mph in 2nd gear ? You must remember they are Fords not Chevy's or Dodges.