Rolling blackouts in AZ

[Gunslinger808]

Yup, they say they are coming to Arizona, and I’ve always wanted a whole home generator just because.
Ended up getting this thing, it’ll power our whole small home, from mini split to freezer and fridge, lights will be on here.

The box end

Some assembly required

And done!

I’ll get a sub panel wired in in the next day or two, right now it’d be extension cords and tripping hazards, but at least my beer will stay cold!

 

[QuietM4]

Don't make it obvious you have that....only power your fridge/freezer...keep the rest of your lights off. A friend of mine who lived in Puerto Rico had that kind of setup, and he ended up having it stolen and his home vandalized during the last hurricane season because his fully lit home made it a VERY easy target during the power outages.

My home has a natural gas generator wired in to power the fridge/freezer, and a few main light circuits.

 

[cool arrow]

how many watts would be a minimum for a house (fridge, 3 ton AC, a light or two)?

 

[Brlux]

The big question is how are you going to connect it to the house especially the 220V needed for the AC. I ended up making a generator interlock switch for my panel similar to this one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/GS-1-Generator-Interlock-Kit-for-a-General-Switch-Breaker-Panel-/172233352538 It makes you switch off the main breaker and then locks it off to allow you to turn on your back feed breaker, making it impossible to have you backfeed breaker and main breaker on at the same time. I have my backfeed breaker wired to a receptical that I can plug a 220V extension cord in to from the generator.

I tried one of the big Costco Champion 7500w (9300w starting generators) and it would not turn over my 4 ton roof AC. It also freaked out and shutdown when trying to run the TIG welder. The small 110V MIG worked fine. That thing was crazy loud, it ended up going back, thanks Costco.

I also have an older Onan 6.5 NH RV generator that puts out split phase 220V. I think it is rated for 6500W continuous but it is way over built and heavy duty. It is made from a massive 2 cylinder engine that spins a little above idle at 1800rpm (most gens sets are revved up at 3600rpms.) it has a ton or copper in the gen head. (The gen head is also the starter.) The Onan can just barely turn over the roof AC if only the AC breaker is active. Once the AC is going you can set the thermostat very low so that it will not cycle and switch on other breakers. It even handled the TIG welder with the AC without a problem. But she is a very thirsty old generator. I keep her around for running big stuff for short periods. The Onan also has an electric automotive type fuel pump and fuel filter attached to and a couple feet of fuel line. I can easily drop the end in to a gas can or down the filler neck of an automobile, press the prime button and then start it up.

I also have a 110V window AC unit that I plan to install on the master bedroom window and run from a 3500W Yamaha inverter generator along with the rest of the 110V loads in the house in the event of a longer term power outage. The inverter generator is super quiet and way more fuel efficient. Most inverter generators only output 110V.

 

[Gunslinger808]

It makes you switch off the main breaker and then locks it off to allow you to turn on your back feed breaker, making it impossible to have you backfeed breaker and main breaker on at the same time. I have my backfeed breaker wired to a receptical that I can plug a 220V extension cord in to from the generator.

That’s exactly what I’m looking to do.

The other thing is our home since we got rid of the kids is small, the mini split, fridge, freezer, and assorted other loads have been taken into consideration, short of both food units, the ac, washer/dryer and microwave all lighting up at the same exact time, this will handle the load.

It might be an 8,000 watt unit, but it is rated for 10,000 start up, at 3x for just our ac it’s still at 3600 watts.
Fridge and freezer are 700 running, so figure 4200 for both if they start at the same time.

Lighting is minimal, especially with LED bulbs, plus the sound is enough advertisement, don’t need our home looking like a Christmas miracle.

 

[Conelrad]

Most single-phase motors take around 600% of running current to start for a few seconds. This really shows what a genset can or can't do. Dinking around with selective starting, then adding up to a max load is touchy, as one step over the limit will send everything dark and require a restart.

Be ready to feed the hell out of a gasoline powered set, they are thirsty. Not as bad as a propane plant, but LPG is easier to handle and store. A natural gas setup is nice, and pretty reliable but not cheap to run, either. Diesels give the best gallon per kWh but are big on the investment and sometimes noisy.

I've sold & set a lot of big gensets for commercial applications before I retired, just giving out a few hints.

Conelrad

 

[Java Junkie]

Get solar panels and Tesla batteries and you're set

 

[QuietM4]

Get solar panels and Tesla batteries and you're set

$1,500 vs $30,000+

 

[Winmagbill]

This just one one of the many reasons I love this site! I don’t post a lot but always find informative posts on topics not related to guns. Thanks!

Here’s an AZ article on it,
https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2020/08/19/aps-srp-tep-ask-customers-cut-power-use-until-8-p-m/5608686002/

Another option for temporary home cooling is an old time swamp cooler. Yeah it sucks when the humidity is up, but you can run it with a much smaller generator. You can set it on a temporary basis in a doorway and crack open windows at the back of the house for airflow.

 

[jcbrown]

Cut power from 3pm to 8pm. That doesn't make sense. Energy consumption is far higher during business hours, and during the heat. It starts the hamsters spinning that they are pushing for government funds to upgrade their shoddy equipment.

 

[XJThrottle]

It's the peak heat of the day. Excessive heat warnings extend until 8pm. Also, when those of us that are NOT working from home are starting to get home.

 

[What]

Yup, as long you don't intend to use the a/c. It'll power your fridge/freezer, lights, tv.

Keep in mind as someone said. Don't make your lights visible during blackout.

Generator will be noisy. Putting some sort of barrier around it will help bounce it around and reduce sound from what I'm told. Build a shed with vent would be ideal as well.

I do know there's steps/parts needed to prevent from house power coming back on and interfering the generator power. That is important if you're doing that.

 

[OH-MAN]

Strange the rolling blackouts happen prior to the rate increase vote that is coming up soon.
Yes the tinfoil is a bit tight on the old melon.

 

[Joe_Blacke]

Strange the rolling blackouts happen prior to the rate increase vote that is coming up soon.
Yes the tinfoil is a bit tight on the old melon.

That is some prognostication. The corporation commission is the one who demanded APS file a new rate claim. The commission made the demand last year.

So for your theory to be correct, it would be the elected body, not the utility, who foresaw the pandemic, which forced people to be at home more, caused the weather to change so CA and AZ have such little rainfall, created massive forest fires that caused critical transmission lines to be shut down, all to justify....the likelihood that rates would remain the same.

Maybe the real issue is the nature of the western interconnect that tightly binds AZ and the western states into a managed grid. Since we are tied together, outages in these states could cause all of AZ to lose power (and parts of Mexico). Affecting both APS and SRP (even TEP). I mean it’s not like we have historical evidence that a simple breaker in Yuma caused a massive power outage in San Diego, and other parts of CA, or something. Oh wait, we do. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Southwest_blackout

Plus AZ hasn’t had rolling blackouts, or brownouts. All three utilities only asked customers to voluntarily conserve power if possible. There wasn’t even a mandate.

 

[OH-MAN]

I agree The utility corps have our best interests in mind.
I think that when there is a problem then there is a chance that they will try to take advantage of it.
Lets see what happens.

 

[deanq]

Cut power from 3pm to 8pm. That doesn't make sense. Energy consumption is far higher during business hours, and during the heat. It starts the hamsters spinning that they are pushing for government funds to upgrade their shoddy equipment.

Energy supply landscape is dramatically different from years past. With the advent of solar, energy supply during what "used" to be peak hours is also at peak with demand. Electricity prices during the day are historically low. Our politicians, in their infinite wisdom, regulated the electricity supply required when the sun goes down, out of existence. That's why peak energy rates are at different times of the day now.

 

[DRTDIVR]

Goal Zero FTW - Yeti1000 will power most things for several days. Recharging with Solar works but takes time to charge unlike gas but GoalZero makes no noise, no exhaust, doesn't use a finite resource that may be unavailable and knowing it's a giant battery might make you pay attention to consumption.

Biggest thing with a generator is that you find a way to keep it quiet and don't light your house up like a christmas tree. When no one has power, things get very quiet so a generator can be heard blocks away.

 

[h8pvmnt]

That goal Zero Option looks interesting, wont run a whole house or an AC unit but it has advantages. How much solar are you using to recharge it. They have a 3000 peak option as well.

 

[XJThrottle]

Two inverter generators here. A 2k and a 1k. Near silent power. My 1k will run for almost 8 hours on 1/2 gallon.

 

[h8pvmnt]

Yea i have a pair of 2K Honda inverters that can be jungle clipped together to make 4Kish. Together they will run an RV completely. I have no way to connect them to the house, so not sure what i would do in a sustained blackout. A fridge or freezer will keep stuff for quite a few hours if you can refrain from opening it but not for days. On quiet mode they are very quiet and will like XJ said run quite a while on a tank of fuel. But not a sustainable solution for sure. I need to go refill my gas cans. I stocked up in March but have been running it through the cars as this crap gas goes bad after a few months.