If you drove 120 mph down any highway

[Solar_Empire]

You know I know I will get a lot of slack from you young pups over this. But when you go to get on the highway it's your job to get up to speed and get into traffic. It's not the job of the people on the highway to let you in. It's just a curious that the people on the highway give if they want.

True, but it doesn't help when I go to merge and the guy who would be behind me if I had managed to merge properly floors it so he can get one car length ahead...and then slams on their brakes, or better yet rockets into the middle lane when they could of just done that in the first place.

The way I see it most highways in the valley are three lanes minimum. I stay in the middle lane doing +5, far right lane is for entering/exiting the highway or heavy cargo, etc, middle lane is for speed limit, left lane is for you guys that have something to prove going 100+. If I'm going 70 in the middle lane with no traffic to the left and you're on my ass, expect me to let off the gas and coast until you get the hint.

 

[Lobo2087]

Yeah, there is NO plus 10, plus 5 or such. The maximum limit for the area is the posted limit period. It is set by studies regarding road condition, number of entries and exits in the area, expected amount of traffic and such.

Highways are prima facia (as posted). If you get a + anything it is the officer wanting to adjust for any +/- error possibility of the speed measuring device being used, not because of any "allowable" magic number. Radar and lidar is more accurate head on or from behind, at an angle such as an officer in a stationary position from the roadside the cosign shows a lower speed than you were actually travelling so it was in your favor anyhow. The speed cameras are time and distance, not radar nor lidar, example a vehicle passing from point a to point b in x seconds is travelling ____ mph, simple math.

However, You can be stopped for 1 over if need be. Reasonable and prudent while arguable for speed is not intended and is not going to be a good legal argument for going beyond the posted limit. It is generally in consideration during times of limited visibility, wet roads etc etc, such as the road may be posted 45 but in the middle of a monsoon it is not reasonable to drive that speed and such.

Most often the signs slower traffic keep right are in areas with steep inclines in order to keep traffic from being backed up behind a vehicle such as one pulling a trailer that cannot maintain the limit not intended to allow someone to drive as they wish simply because they have peddle left. If you are driving under the limit you could be stopped for impeding though if you are driving the limit it is unlikely that will happen just because jimmy wants to go fast....

My suggestion pull to the side and watch, it likely wont be long before they pass an unmarked.

 

[Crippledtrigger]

So what have we learned.

We are all arsholes who like to phuk with other people who we feel are somehow in the wrong regardless of reality. Road induced butthurt if you will.

We all think we know what should be and are not afraid to become a bit crotchety and a prick to let others know we are, in our minds anyways, right and they are wrong and I will prove it by not showing simple courtesy. Oops! Sorry I didnt see you there when I decided to do an emergency break check. Cable barriers and walls suck. I'm sorry.

One thing we havnt bitched about are the arsholes who will haul ass up and force their way into the safety space your maintaining between the car in front of you and yours when there is a half mile of open space behind you. And they usually slow down so they dont tailgate or get off at the next exit.

God what I wouldnt give for a bofors
or a directed energy weapon at times. Crap, a little karma might be nice if she decides to present a mechanical failure to that arss.

Isnt it great being secure in the knowledge you are always right? Especially when it makes you feel good and justified for being an arshole?

Most of you folks dont remember when Interstate 10 didnt go all the way thru town. Or when it took a couple hours to get to the other side of town on surface streets cause there were no free ways. Hell, going to AJ requierd an over night hotel stay. Lol. Bell road used to be out in the sticks. Those were the days of really bad traffic. Now days if your not in a rush hour time frame you can get almost anywhere within an hour or so. Even as sprawled out as the valley is. Still no where near as big as LA or DFW metro areas.

God how I hate throngs of people. I'm sure they hate me too.

Perspective. Maybe we will have something else to bitch about soon. It's the cycle of life for cranky old bastards. How about a good ammo shortage?

 

[harleypower69]

Yes, when I am out on the road I always feel like I am in an auto race I was unaware of entering. It used to vex me but now I just accept it as another manifestation of overpopulation and pent up frustration.
I too detest the asshats that clog the left lane usually white pickups towing landscaping equipment or little self important bitches lost to their cell phones and oblivious of their surroundings.
My biggest piss off is with the incompetent pricks at DPS who feel it is fine to shut down an Interstate Highway for multiple hours while they, "investigate". Stupid bastards need to up their game and free up the road.
We all have our annoyances. Just do a gut check and see if it is on the short list of things you can control or on the long list of things beyond your control.
And get out of the left lane FFS.

 

[Elk34]

No I really hate when I see a Prius or another with a cloud plate in front of me in the left lane running with traffic to the right or slower from 6 to 9 or 3 to 7 weekdays. Why the hell don't they use the carpool lane.

 

[Elk34]

No I really hate when I see a Prius or another with a cloud plate in front of me in the left lane running with traffic to the right or slower from 6 to 9 or 3 to 7 weekdays. Why the hell don't they use the carpool lane. Going back to the cops. The easiest way to go on a fishing expedition is by using traffic law infractions. If the person is not breaking any traffic laws then there's always ( your tire looks a little low). Regaurdless if a cop wants to stop you, he can.

 

[redj]

It's a game to some and lots of people like playing it.
Some people will go out of their way to play it.

 

[baja]

Yeah, there is NO plus 10, plus 5 or such. The maximum limit for the area is the posted limit period.

Wrong.

This is from the City of Scottsdale website.

"Why are speeders allowed a 10 mph buffer?"

"The margin is intended to address language in the Arizona Revised Statutes related to speed offenses that defines, "...reasonable and prudent..." speed. It also provides a reasonable margin of error/grace for inaccurate vehicle speedometers and short-term lapses of attention by otherwise law-abiding and generally cautious drivers."

Some states have Absolute speed limits. Arizona ISN'T one of them.

Boom.

 

[Lobo2087]

Yeah, that is city of scottsdale policy not the reason officers from other jurisdictions work with a buffer.

There is no law nor requirement within the law demanding a 10 over buffer. It is not a thing

 

[mallic]

Yeah, that is city of scottsdale policy not the reason officers from other jurisdictions work with a buffer.

There is no law nor requirement within the law demanding a 10 over buffer. It is not a thing

Awhile ago the sheriff or police chief, can't remember who, came on the radio and was just begging people to keep it under 85 on the 101. Kind of implies there's an unwritten buffer.

 

[Lobo2087]

I have been a traffic officer for several years. Many people believe there is a set in stone buffer, unfortunately unless a department policy mandate it, there is not. As i mentioned earlier most officers will give an overage, how much is dependent on the particular officer, normally to allow for any possible variance in the speed measurement method being used and yes in some cases to allow some reasonableness to a faulty speedometer. It is not however required by law and in fact if you read 28-701 which governs speeds it specifically states unless the roadway is posted other than what is defined in the statute being in excess of the posted speed is prima facie evidence alone the individuals speed is not reasonable nor prudent. As i mentioned in an earlier post reasonable and prudent can even come into play when due to certain roadway conditions you should be going even slower than the posted. For example poor weather, school zones, heavy traffic times and areas and so on.

There is no requirement to believe me, it is in ARS for you to read for yourself.

28-701. Reasonable and prudent speed; prima facie evidence; exceptions

A. A person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing. A person shall control the speed of a vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on, entering or adjacent to the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to exercise reasonable care for the protection of others.

B. Except as provided in subsections C and D of this section or except if a special hazard requires a lesser speed, any speed in excess of the following speeds is prima facie evidence that the speed is too great and therefore unreasonable:

1. Fifteen miles per hour approaching a school crossing.

2. Twenty-five miles per hour in a business or residential district.

3. Sixty-five miles per hour in other locations.

C. The speed limits prescribed in this section may be altered as authorized in sections 28-702 and 28-703.

D. The maximum speed provided in this section is reduced to the speed that is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and with regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, including the following conditions:

1. Approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad crossing.

2. Approaching and going around a curve.

3. Approaching a hillcrest.

4. Traveling on a narrow or winding roadway.

5. A special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

E. A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed that is less than the speed that is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions unless the speed that is reasonable and prudent exceeds the maximum safe operating speed of the lawfully operated implement of husbandry.

 

 

[What]

I'm a bit confused on the wording. Care to explain the 10 mph buffer?

 

[pvreb]

Plug "ars 28-701" and "ars 28-702" into your favorite search engine and check out the results.

I found it educational. My personal opinion is that the law enforcement community needs to more rigidly enforce the laws.

 

[Crippledtrigger]

I'm a bit confused on the wording. Care to explain the 10 mph buffer?

That's a gift a particular dept policy or officers might give you. Peroid. Dont think of it as anything more than that. They figure 2.5 mph +/- on your speedo plus calibration of the radar...I dont think they have to calibrate the laser systems...and you have a few miles per hour. Scottsdale just sets it at ten. IIRC they had a judge dismissing tickets in the 80s when a smart lawyer started asking for the actual radar guns to be tested. 2.5 mph off on those at the time isnt unheard of so they started this. It also might have something to do with their photo radar equipment back in the beginning of that bs. I may be wrong on why they do it but that's what I remember.

It's not law anywhere. In practice, 5mph is about all the leeway you MIGHT get. Again a gift. Dont expect it and get butthurt if you get pulled over going a couple over cause there are zones and times and initiatives where they may not give you that.

ETA..for example our school zones in texas are different than AZ. They are 15mph lower than the posted speed for road. I've been pulled over for going one mph over. I see it weekly in the town I live in.

I've seen the same thing in AZ at the start of school year many times.

You got nothing to bitch about if you speed and get caught. It's just they way it goes.

 

[Lobo2087]

Yes both radar (doppler) and lidar (lasar) are calibrated yearly.

 

[Elk34]

I have been a traffic officer for several years. Many people believe there is a set in stone buffer, unfortunately unless a department policy mandate it, there is not. As i mentioned earlier most officers will give an overage, how much is dependent on the particular officer, normally to allow for any possible variance in the speed measurement method being used and yes in some cases to allow some reasonableness to a faulty speedometer. It is not however required by law and in fact if you read 28-701 which governs speeds it specifically states unless the roadway is posted other than what is defined in the statute being in excess of the posted speed is prima facie evidence alone the individuals speed is not reasonable nor prudent. As i mentioned in an earlier post reasonable and prudent can even come into play when due to certain roadway conditions you should be going even slower than the posted. For example poor weather, school zones, heavy traffic times and areas and so on.

There is no requirement to believe me, it is in ARS for you to read for yourself.

28-701. Reasonable and prudent speed; prima facie evidence; exceptions

A. A person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing. A person shall control the speed of a vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on, entering or adjacent to the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to exercise reasonable care for the protection of others.

B. Except as provided in subsections C and D of this section or except if a special hazard requires a lesser speed, any speed in excess of the following speeds is prima facie evidence that the speed is too great and therefore unreasonable:

1. Fifteen miles per hour approaching a school crossing.

2. Twenty-five miles per hour in a business or residential district.

3. Sixty-five miles per hour in other locations.

C. The speed limits prescribed in this section may be altered as authorized in sections 28-702 and 28-703.

D. The maximum speed provided in this section is reduced to the speed that is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and with regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, including the following conditions:

1. Approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad crossing.

2. Approaching and going around a curve.

3. Approaching a hillcrest.

4. Traveling on a narrow or winding roadway.

5. A special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

E. A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed that is less than the speed that is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions unless the speed that is reasonable and prudent exceeds the maximum safe operating speed of the lawfully operated implement of husbandry.

 

I'm glad you brought up school zones. I didn't learn this untill I had to go to traffic school to get rid of a ticket. Now I know this to be law and if you haven't been to traffic school you wouldn't know. Here it goes....
When coming into a school zone there is a speed limit on the outer edge. Let's say its 25mph. Now there is a inner cross walk speed limit let's say it 15 mph. Here is where it gets messy. If you dont see another 15 mph sign after you cross the cross walk and I mean the last part of your car ( trailer hitch) once it is past and clear you can pick it back up.to 25 mph and once you pass the outer marker for the school zone you can resume the road speed 35,45 what ever it is. But I did not know that until I went to traffic school. Now if you cross the cross walk and see another 15 mph sign then that's what it is untill the outer marker. I hate people that keep the 15 mph for the next 1/4 mile because they don't know or they are just rude

 

[knockonit]

ZONE, big word, maybe determine meaning, has always been between signs, speed trap jargon, probably never been stopped in the deep south, or mid west for that fact, small town bull shiat, bled over in to Az.
jmo
Rj

 

[Elk34]

Yes but speeding in a school zone Is just as bad as shooting a kid

 

[Doc Holliday]

Yes but speeding in a school zone Is just as bad as shooting a kid

Not always a bad thing, depends on the kid. :lol:

Now as far as those 15 mph signs, they really only need to be up before and after school (when kids are actually coming/going), not all damn day, the kids are IN THE SCHOOL during the day, quit slowing everyone down for no reason at all, 25 mph around schools is slow enough.

 

[baja]

I learned in traffic school the 15mph is for the crosswalk. Once you are past the crosswalk the speed goes back to regular school zone speed.
The backward sign on the other side means nothing, it's for traffic going the other way.
AND......
While off topic, but I also learned it in traffic school.
Did you know you can make a u-turn on a red light? Yup.
Key is obviously it has to be safe from opposing traffic plus you can't enter the intersection which is the area contained within the curbs not the crosswalk. So don't break that invisible line from curb to curb and you're good to go.