Can any 5.56mm rifle currently on the market really make a significant improvement on the current crop of AR15

[Tim McBride]

Sig550, Bren 805, SCAR16, etc etc
People keep coming up with new 5.56mm guns, most are heavier, most are using pistons. However, do any of them offer a real substantial improvement over the current crop of AR15s?

 

[Jack Dupp]

The only one I think that offers a tangible benefit over the AR15 is the Tavor/X95. And that is simply because of having a full-length barrel in such a short and maneuverable package.

 

[airedalex2]

In the mid 90’s I attended Clint Smith’s Urban Rifle class, 3 days using a Steyr Aug. That was a great carbine. Innovative idea. Had some experience with Mini 14 prior to that. Started getting into AR’s after that. Seems like nothing does as good a job, all around, as the AR’s. With good old American ingenuity they have been able to be adapted to rails, lasers, sights, red dots, scopes etc. There a lot of good carbines out there trying to replace the AR. Time will tell.

 

[lew]

Define "substantial improvement" and we can get a conversation going. What parameters are we dealing with, who is the intended user, what performance is expected, et al?

 

[the1_roadrunner]

The only one I think that offers a tangible benefit over the AR15 is the Tavor/X95. And that is simply because of having a full-length barrel in such a short and maneuverable package.

The problem with the 5.56 bullpups is trigger pull. It's difficult to fine tune do to the linkage required between trigger and hammer.

 

[shooter444]

delete

 

[admin]

If all these rifles debuted at the same time, I think the AR15 platform would not emerge as the preeminent option. However, because it has been around so long and has gone through so many tried-and-tested battle-proven evolutions, and the price is so low on it, it's an ubiquitous rifle that will always win-out over other 5.56mm options, generally speaking. There are undoubtedly niche roles that are better fulfilled by other 5.56mm rifles, but generally, the AR platform will win out in that caliber.

My $0.02, anyway.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Pretty much every semi-auto 5.56 rifle is a copy of one or both of the original AR15/AR18. They just wrap them up in different body work.

 

[338lapua]

And most of them are way more expensive. I own pretty much all semi auto rifle models ever made and really see no need for anything other than the AR-15. Most of the offerings have no versatility compared to the AR-15. You can have a barrel as short as 8-10 inches or as long as 24-28 inches. You can have any caliber you want including pistol calibers in one receiver with only a few parts changes. You can do CQB or snipe someone at over 1,000. Yeah I don't see much need for anything else even though I own pretty much everything ever made just because I collect them.

 

[YNOTAZ]

Rifles currently on the market vs AR15s, the AR wins in my book.

While there may be something newer and better in the future, the AR has so many customizable parts available it suits every likely need or desire. For the people that want a bad-ass looking rifle, they can buy one assembled from Chinese parts for $350. For someone that wants to pick flees off a yote at 500yds they can buy or assemble an AR for a couple thousand. The entire gamut of variants is based on the same receiver.

I like that capability and being able to become very familiar with one operating platform capable of addressing many functions from plinking to Hog hunting and defense.

 

[Tim McBride]

Define "substantial improvement" and we can get a conversation going. What parameters are we dealing with, who is the intended user, what performance is expected, et al?

Hard military usage for the average Infantry man.

 

[Dogslayer]

The only one I think that offers a tangible benefit over the AR15 is the Tavor/X95. And that is simply because of having a full-length barrel in such a short and maneuverable package.

The problem with the 5.56 bullpups is trigger pull. It's difficult to fine tune do to the linkage required between trigger and hammer.

There is a bullpup made in Chandler Az that has an excellent trigger. KM Arms makes it. I have both the 5.56 and the .308 versions. With my reloads, both are MOA. That's using a good 20 power scope. Once I dialed in the load each one liked I put an Atibal XP8 1-8x 24 on them.
http://www.kmarms.com/M17S556.html

 

[the1_roadrunner]

The only one I think that offers a tangible benefit over the AR15 is the Tavor/X95. And that is simply because of having a full-length barrel in such a short and maneuverable package.

The problem with the 5.56 bullpups is trigger pull. It's difficult to fine tune do to the linkage required between trigger and hammer.

There is a bullpup made in Chandler Az that has an excellent trigger. KM Arms makes it. I have both the 5.56 and the .308 versions. With my reloads, both are MOA. That's using a good 20 power scope. Once I dialed in the load each one liked I put an Atibal XP8 1-8x 24 on them.
http://www.kmarms.com/M17S556.html

Definitely an repressive looking gun. Again the problem with bull pups is a piece of linkage is required between the hammer and trigger. The hammer doesn't simply slip off the land on the trigger as it does on conventional AR trigger configurations. Hammer is separated from the trigger, thus a third link of tolerance stack up is involved with the linkage piece (play etc). Now, question, could I design a linkage type trigger with a feel close to that of a conventional trigger? Yes I could but it would require extremely precise components as well as extremely precise anchor points and or pin and hole alignments in the framework of the gun. The problem with linkage is play. I'd like to see your actual drawings but pretty sure that's not going to happen

 

[Steve_In_29]

There is a bullpup made in Chandler Az that has an excellent trigger. KM Arms makes it. I have both the 5.56 and the .308 versions. With my reloads, both are MOA. That's using a good 20 power scope. Once I dialed in the load each one liked I put an Atibal XP8 1-8x 24 on them.
http://www.kmarms.com/M17S556.html

What is up with the fan shaped ejection pattern? From videos it appears (I could be wrong) to throw brass from about 2 o'clock to about 5.

 

[Dogslayer]

I'm not sure why it doesn't throw the spent brass into a small area. The next time
I shoot it I will check out the approximate size of the area they land in. As long as it keeps firing the first and last cartridge in the magazine I'm not gonna lose
any sleep over it. The 308 has dual ejectors, the 5.56 one.
Dogslayer

 

[Steve_In_29]

I'm not sure why it doesn't throw the spent brass into a small area. The next time
I shoot it I will check out the approximate size of the area they land in. As long as it keeps firing the first and last cartridge in the magazine I'm not gonna lose
any sleep over it. The 308 has dual ejectors, the 5.56 one.
Dogslayer

Random ejection patterns are a sign of improper gassing/timing of the rifle.

 

[Dogslayer]

It has an adjustable gas system, the next time I shoot it I will go a few clicks one way and a few the other way to see if it will put all the brass in a smaller area. Thanks for the info.
Dogslayer

 

[brandyspaw]

There are other 5.56 rifles out there that could be to be considered a "significant improvement"
over the AR. However, I think the huge advantage the AR offers is that it has become so prolific.

The availability of both the parts and the guns is now so great that it will likely be around for as long as we can still enjoy our gun freedoms. Even if the military were to adopt something completely different. So for me at least, the availability and economy of the AR platform has pretty precluded buying other 5.56 rifles. I've had a few other 5.56 rifles in the past but all of them have been sold. At the same time my selection of different AR variations has increased.

 

[Steve_In_29]

It has an adjustable gas system, the next time I shoot it I will go a few clicks one way and a few the other way to see if it will put all the brass in a smaller area. Thanks for the info.
Dogslayer

Did you get a chance to play with the gas system yet? How did it work out?

 

[Ranger1]

Here is the skinny on all AR rifles. You can change what ever you want but you can not get away from the locking lugs on the bolt. Drop some sand in there and you are fuc$ed. Now the Sig 556 swat pistol or rifle are based on the top 3 rifles of the world. Upper is based on the swiss 551 and 550 . Bolt is based on AK. Lower is based around the AR magazine. This rifle is the best of all 3 worlds. It's not cheap