Buying used via FFL transfer

[Winmagbill]

Been seeing this as requirement for buying used guns more and more. Other than direct evidence of chain of ownership maintained by a third party does this offer anything else? As a buyer what am I getting for my money for the FFL fee? How is it better than flashing an ID and writing info down?


Not looking to start a discussion roasting new gun owners or people from out of state who don’t know current requirements.

 

[knockonit]

why create a requirement where there is no requirement, kinda liberal thinking on my part, it meaning expat liberalism is creeping into everything in Arizona.
Their fear of supposed issue with a stolen or gun purchased via a thief is the internet bane,
if a gal or fella needs a xfer thru an ffl for a buy so be it, just takes me out of buying opportunity.
a needless act as far as i'm concerned. but it is their choice to do so, just causes me to move on. best of luck with sale to anyone regardless of requirements


happy saturday smuckettes, just glad to be here.
rj

 

[Jack Dupp]

Dudes are being homogay when they do that. Either only do what is REQUIRED by law, or just keep the gat if they are so paranoid about what may happen after they sell said gat...

 

[Tenring]

Transferring a firearm through an FFL does not guarantee the firearm is not stolen, only that the person buying it can legally own one. There is no requirement for the FFl to run the firearm as being stolen.

Is everyone who keeps or writes down RECORDS of all their transactions, a firearm dealer? How many RECORDED transactions does it take before the person is considered a gun runner in the eyes of the law.

 

[QuietM4]

Transferring a firearm through an FFL does not guarantee the firearm is not stolen, only that the person buying it can legally own one. There is no requirement for the FFl to run the firearm as being stolen.

Is everyone who keeps or writes down RECORDS of all their transactions, a firearm dealer? How many RECORDED transactions does it take before the person is considered a gun runner in the eyes of the law.

A 4473 doesn't even guarantee that...it only means the databases the NICS can access don't have any red flags. I've seen plenty of people pass a 4473/NICS background check and later the transaction comes back as DENIED. More often, they get delayed for 3 business days, NICS can't do their job in a timely fashion, so the gun gets transferred...1 week or 1 month later NICS calls back to deny the transfer...too late. I've had NICS come back with a denied response 4 months after the fact.

 

[Tenring]

Transferring a firearm through an FFL does not guarantee the firearm is not stolen, only that the person buying it can legally own one. There is no requirement for the FFl to run the firearm as being stolen.

Is everyone who keeps or writes down RECORDS of all their transactions, a firearm dealer? How many RECORDED transactions does it take before the person is considered a gun runner in the eyes of the law.

A 4473 doesn't even guarantee that...it only means the databases the NICS can access don't have any red flags. I've seen plenty of people pass a 4473/NICS background check and later the transaction comes back as DENIED. More often, they get delayed for 3 business days, NICS can't do their job in a timely fashion, so the gun gets transferred...1 week or 1 month later NICS calls back to deny the transfer...too late. I've had NICS come back with a denied response 4 months after the fact.

Agreed - I stand corrected ...... just another reason doing a transfer through an FFL is not needed.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Transferring a firearm through an FFL does not guarantee the firearm is not stolen, only that the person buying it can legally own one. There is no requirement for the FFl to run the firearm as being stolen.

Is everyone who keeps or writes down RECORDS of all their transactions, a firearm dealer? How many RECORDED transactions does it take before the person is considered a gun runner in the eyes of the law.

A 4473 doesn't even guarantee that...it only means the databases the NICS can access don't have any red flags. I've seen plenty of people pass a 4473/NICS background check and later the transaction comes back as DENIED. More often, they get delayed for 3 business days, NICS can't do their job in a timely fashion, so the gun gets transferred...1 week or 1 month later NICS calls back to deny the transfer...too late. I've had NICS come back with a denied response 4 months after the fact.

You don't have a AZ CCW??? I had one a week after I moved here, and just renewed for a third time.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[smithers599]

I can understand that some people might worry that they would sell a gun to a Bad Person who misused it, and they would have legal liability, or at least guilt, about selling the gun to that person. Sort of like selling your car on Craigslist, and then the buyer uses that car to run over a bunch of people at the town's Christmas parade.

I understand it, but don't feel like going along with it. If I see that requirement, I just cross that gun off my list and keep looking.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

why create a requirement where there is no requirement, kinda liberal thinking on my part, it meaning expat liberalism is creeping into everything in Arizona.
Their fear of supposed issue with a stolen or gun purchased via a thief is the internet bane,
if a gal or fella needs a xfer thru an ffl for a buy so be it, just takes me out of buying opportunity.
a needless act as far as i'm concerned. but it is their choice to do so, just causes me to move on. best of luck with sale to anyone regardless of requirements


happy saturday smuckettes, just glad to be here.
rj

I can understand that some people might worry that they would sell a gun to a Bad Person who misused it, and they would have legal liability, or at least guilt, about selling the gun to that person. Sort of like selling your car on Craigslist, and then the buyer uses that car to run over a bunch of people at the town's Christmas parade.

I understand it, but don't feel like going along with it. If I see that requirement, I just cross that gun off my list and keep looking.

Yep, I turned down a smokin' deal on a Ruger MK4 because the guy insisted on an FFL transfer, even with my telling him I had a CCW and AZ DL. Jackasses, keep their damn guns.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[was21]

I have a theory about these types.

Their parents ran to Canada to avoid the draft, then immigrated back into California…. Seems likely to me. LOL

Just a theory

 

[Jack Dupp]

Transferring a firearm through an FFL does not guarantee the firearm is not stolen, only that the person buying it can legally own one. There is no requirement for the FFl to run the firearm as being stolen.

Is everyone who keeps or writes down RECORDS of all their transactions, a firearm dealer? How many RECORDED transactions does it take before the person is considered a gun runner in the eyes of the law.

A 4473 doesn't even guarantee that...it only means the databases the NICS can access don't have any red flags. I've seen plenty of people pass a 4473/NICS background check and later the transaction comes back as DENIED. More often, they get delayed for 3 business days, NICS can't do their job in a timely fashion, so the gun gets transferred...1 week or 1 month later NICS calls back to deny the transfer...too late. I've had NICS come back with a denied response 4 months after the fact.

You don't have a AZ CCW??? I had one a week after I moved here, and just renewed for a third time.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

Good for you, shall we give you a cookie? We don't need no stinkin' card to carry.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

A 4473 doesn't even guarantee that...it only means the databases the NICS can access don't have any red flags. I've seen plenty of people pass a 4473/NICS background check and later the transaction comes back as DENIED. More often, they get delayed for 3 business days, NICS can't do their job in a timely fashion, so the gun gets transferred...1 week or 1 month later NICS calls back to deny the transfer...too late. I've had NICS come back with a denied response 4 months after the fact.

You don't have a AZ CCW??? I had one a week after I moved here, and just renewed for a third time.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

Good for you, shall we give you a cookie? We don't need no stinkin' card to carry.

Yes, chocolate chip is preferred.

No, you don't, but, it eliminates the NICS and you can carry in many other states. DUH.

Clyde

 

[QuietM4]

Transferring a firearm through an FFL does not guarantee the firearm is not stolen, only that the person buying it can legally own one. There is no requirement for the FFl to run the firearm as being stolen.

Is everyone who keeps or writes down RECORDS of all their transactions, a firearm dealer? How many RECORDED transactions does it take before the person is considered a gun runner in the eyes of the law.

A 4473 doesn't even guarantee that...it only means the databases the NICS can access don't have any red flags. I've seen plenty of people pass a 4473/NICS background check and later the transaction comes back as DENIED. More often, they get delayed for 3 business days, NICS can't do their job in a timely fashion, so the gun gets transferred...1 week or 1 month later NICS calls back to deny the transfer...too late. I've had NICS come back with a denied response 4 months after the fact.

You don't have a AZ CCW??? I had one a week after I moved here, and just renewed for a third time.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

Of course I have a CCW…I was in a class the weekend I turned 21. But I wasn’t talking about me, I was referring to my experience of selling firearms.

By the way, a person with a CCW doesn’t guarantee they aren’t a criminal either. In AZ, you are supposed to self surrender your permit if you no longer meet the requirements…I wonder how many people actually do that. Since there is no requirement for an FFL to check the validity of a permit, I’m sure there are people still using a “valid” CCW to purchase firearms.

 

[pneuby]

Wow, it appears my recent postings have again raised up a sore subject. Believe me, I understand it.
So, I am about to 'take one for the team' here by way of explanation. I will keep it relatively brief.
Certainly, there was a bit more to the story, which at this time I'll keep personal so far as the board posting goes.

I sold a gun to Joe-Bloe on-the-street. Had valid Az D/L. Turns out that Joe was a felon, and said gat was recovered surrounding some (unknown) bad ju-ju. Local po-po engaged our favorite Feds to trace it. Those favorite Feds invited me to a voluntary meeting for some explanatory, and exploratory, questioning. Let's just say that 90mins later, I had quite an education on their perspective. I also voluntarily signed some documents you may have heard about elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC6vRjo82II

As to the buyer having a permit, the senior agent pointed out to me it only means said buyer passed a background check ONCE, in the past. (Yeah, yeah, I know....permit holders don't get b/c'ed again at each sale...but I wasn't about to be a smartass and point that out.). Suffice it to say, anything I sell going forward MUST be done VIA AN FFL.

At least at this time, I won't be answering any follow-up questions in the post.

 

[Suck My Glock]

I am normally in the same camp as the other commenters here, and still am.


But I want to thank pneuby for having a thick skin and an adult attitude and stepping forward to try to not only give us his perspective but also to keep it civil and friendly. We should all do that.

 

[bldr60]

I am normally in the same camp as the other commenters here, and still am.


But I want to thank pneuby for having a thick skin and an adult attitude and stepping forward to try to not only give us his perspective but also to keep it civil and friendly. We should all do that.

I'll second this post.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Really, the only way to hopefully not get a stolen gun is buying from a pawn shop. They have to run theirs every time one comes in, even if it's been in before. Now, as others have said, CCW's can be revoked and they'd never know it was until it expired. So, good luck out there, I'll buy and sell as I friggin' please.

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Winmagbill]

When I posted the question it wasn’t to single anyone out. After watching the video I can understand a seller going that way. As a buyer it really doesn’t offer a solid benefit. Bottom line; if it’s your gun I believe you can sell it any way you want. As a buyer that’s my issue to deal with. I’m just thankful I still have the choice and I’m not forced into FFL transfers like CA and having to pay outrageous fees to dealers who were given a monopoly on this issue.

On a side note I don’t have any carry gun that were not bought New at a FFL. Been following that policy ever since the incident on the old board when a CCW holder got caught with a stolen gun. Don’t need the drama in my life just to save a few bucks.

 

[Tenring]

Wow, it appears my recent postings have again raised up a sore subject. Believe me, I understand it.
So, I am about to 'take one for the team' here by way of explanation. I will keep it relatively brief.
Certainly, there was a bit more to the story, which at this time I'll keep personal so far as the board posting goes.

I sold a gun to Joe-Bloe on-the-street. Had valid Az D/L. Turns out that Joe was a felon, and said gat was recovered surrounding some (unknown) bad ju-ju. Local po-po engaged our favorite Feds to trace it. Those favorite Feds invited me to a voluntary meeting for some explanatory, and exploratory, questioning. Let's just say that 90mins later, I had quite an education on their perspective. I also voluntarily signed some documents you may have heard about elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC6vRjo82II

As to the buyer having a permit, the senior agent pointed out to me it only means said buyer passed a background check ONCE, in the past. (Yeah, yeah, I know....permit holders don't get b/c'ed again at each sale...but I wasn't about to be a smartass and point that out.). Suffice it to say, anything I sell going forward MUST be done VIA AN FFL.

At least at this time, I won't be answering any follow-up questions in the post.

How did they trace the gun back to you, did you buy it through an FFL.....did Mr. Bloe ask you for and record your personal information?

 

[pneuby]

Yes, I had bought it through an FFL, thus the traceability. No, Herr Bloe didn't ask for BOS, LOL.