ATF Issues Cease and Desist Order

[A_C Guy]

I think it would take a whole case of Preparation H to sooth all the butt hurt in this thread. As a Patreon of this site, stop wasting my $5/month with the thread-spamming personal attack BS.

Unfortunately, this site has always had some people that resort to name calling and personal attacks. That is part of our society now. The days of having a civil discuss with opposing viewpoints are long gone. It is much easier for many to just say "you are a liar... you are a hater... etc"

And I appreciate the original post oh-so-long-ago by the OP informing those of us who were unaware of the issue.

You are welcome.

 

[A_C Guy]

I agree with that. I have not heard one person that prefers to pay for a stock cheer for the ATF or agree with their decision.

Why should we agree with a partisan bureaucratic political ploy?This was done just prior to the election as a political move by people in the ATF that are anti Trump. SB Tactical has several videos laying out this conclusion. The ATF can not legally flip flop on this issues, yet they do based upon their political motives. Most people on this site are angry with the inconsistent answers the ATF gives us. SB Tactical has tried numerous times to get the ATF to give a firm definition of what they believe describes a brace. The ATF repeatedly has refused to give them such a definition.

Not one has not showed their support for those that want to have braces. But I have seen attacks on on those that admitted to paying for something despite that they don't like having to pay, by the very same people that they have vocally supported.

Now you are being dishonest. I specifically said that I have a brace and I do not use it as a stock. You immediately called me a liar; twice. You are part of the problem. You, as I stated before, have never seen me, yet you called me a liar and a hater when I said that I don't shoulder the brace and I use it solely as a pistol, not as an SBR.

We're losing because of some in our camp have chosen to eat our own that support them, and divide the community to polarizing effects.

You are part of that group that is trying to divide the community. But, anyone that takes the time to read what you type can easily see that.

The other person, Accountant, does the same as you. He tries telling us how we should just pay our $200 tax and get permission to own a firearm. (read the first 2 pages of this thread if you doubt me)
It is contrary to the rule of law to arbitrarily and/or retroactively reclassify an object and turn law abiding citizens into felons. That is what communists, socialists, and nazis did and do to their political opponents. That is not what this country does or is allowed to do.

The problem with people like you and the Accountant are you believe the government can do whatever it wants and we, the people, must obey. According to the Constitution, that is not correct nor legal.

Hopefully, Justice Barret will soon be confirmed to the Supreme Court and Trump will be re-elected.

 

[TheAccountant]

I agree with that. I have not heard one person that prefers to pay for a stock cheer for the ATF or agree with their decision.

Why should we agree with a partisan bureaucratic political ploy?This was done just prior to the election as a political move by people in the ATF that are anti Trump. SB Tactical has several videos laying out this conclusion. The ATF can not legally flip flop on this issues, yet they do based upon their political motives. Most people on this site are angry with the inconsistent answers the ATF gives us. SB Tactical has tried numerous times to get the ATF to give a firm definition of what they believe describes a brace. The ATF repeatedly has refused to give them such a definition.

Not one has not showed their support for those that want to have braces. But I have seen attacks on on those that admitted to paying for something despite that they don't like having to pay, by the very same people that they have vocally supported.

Now you are being dishonest. I specifically said that I have a brace and I do not use it as a stock. You immediately called me a liar; twice. You are part of the problem. You, as I stated before, have never seen me, yet you called me a liar and a hater when I said that I don't shoulder the brace and I use it solely as a pistol, not as an SBR.

We're losing because of some in our camp have chosen to eat our own that support them, and divide the community to polarizing effects.

You are part of that group that is trying to divide the community. But, anyone that takes the time to read what you type can easily see that.

The other person, Accountant, does the same as you. He tries telling us how we should just pay our $200 tax and get permission to own a firearm. (read the first 2 pages of this thread if you doubt me)
It is contrary to the rule of law to arbitrarily and/or retroactively reclassify an object and turn law abiding citizens into felons. That is what communists, socialists, and nazis did and do to their political opponents. That is not what this country does or is allowed to do.

The problem with people like you and the Accountant are you believe the government can do whatever it wants and we, the people, must obey. According to the Constitution, that is not correct nor legal.

Hopefully, Justice Barret will soon be confirmed to the Supreme Court and Trump will be re-elected.

Is English not your first language? I never said anything remotely close to that. Maybe if I repeat it for the fifth time it'll actually sink in through your thick skull. For ME, registering it as an SBR is better than dealing with the braces. I had a brace. I didn't like it. I went the SBR route. Registering a lower that was already transferred to me through an FFL isn't telling them anything new.

What's ironic is Q is proposing to pay the stamp for all of these owners to go the SBR route. Why don't you start attacking them? They're obviously gun haters. What about everyone that has a CCW? They gave their personal info, fingerprints, paid money, and let the state put them in a database of gun owners. They must hate guns too. Attack away.

 

[cool arrow]

why does almost EVERY thread involving a handful of people here turn ugly and personal?

WTF?

It is entertaining at first, then an inevitable thread killer, often on threads that might be decent and informative.

It's getting old.

 

[A_C Guy]

You are part of that group that is trying to divide the community. But, anyone that takes the time to read what you type can easily see that.

The other person, Accountant, does the same as you. He tries telling us how we should just pay our $200 tax and get permission to own a firearm. (read the first 2 pages of this thread if you doubt me)

Is English not your first language? I never said anything remotely close to that.

Again, you go the route of personal attacks...and lies.....
Here you go telling us to just pay the tax and obey:

The premium on the braces over similar function rifle stocks will cover at least half the cost of the stamp. The eform Form 1 is easy and they typically approve pretty quick. Why even mess around with these things?

Followed by

I'd rather have my rights infringed by filling out a form and telling the gov information they already know about me

 

[A_C Guy]

why does almost EVERY thread involving a handful of people here turn ugly and personal?

WTF?

It is entertaining at first, then an inevitable thread killer, often on threads that might be decent and informative.

It's getting old.

That is why I don't post much here, too many personal attacks, then they try to lie and say "I never said that"
If you read the first couple pages, every person that supports pistol braces and thinks the ATF was wrong, was attacked by 1182 and the Accountant.
It was a deliberate attempt to derail the thread.

 

[TheAccountant]

You are part of that group that is trying to divide the community. But, anyone that takes the time to read what you type can easily see that.

The other person, Accountant, does the same as you. He tries telling us how we should just pay our $200 tax and get permission to own a firearm. (read the first 2 pages of this thread if you doubt me)

Is English not your first language? I never said anything remotely close to that.

Again, you go the route of personal attacks...and lies.....
Here you go telling us to just pay the tax and obey:

The premium on the braces over similar function rifle stocks will cover at least half the cost of the stamp. The eform Form 1 is easy and they typically approve pretty quick. Why even mess around with these things?

Followed by

I'd rather have my rights infringed by filling out a form and telling the gov information they already know about me

Asking a question is now an attack? The fragility of people here never ceases to amaze me. And don't do the typical liberal BS and quote out of context. What I said was:

IMO the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed!!! Period, end of decussion.

Any questions?

If you want to use some stock that's just janky enough to not be considered a stock because that makes you feel like your rights aren't being infringed, more power to you. Fight the man.

I'd rather have my rights infringed by filling out a form and telling the gov information they already know about me to a) build the rifle how I want, and b) avoid being at the mercy of an ATF ruling that can be changed on a whim.

I'll agree the Form 20 is a pointless waste of time. There's only 1 other state that I travel to with an SBR and the form is good for a year so it's not a big deal for me. For others that travel all over, I can see it being a bigger hassle.

 

[A_C Guy]

Yes, your question was meant to belittle people who don't want to pay the $200 tax.
The fragility and liberal bs have been nonstop from you and 1182.
Neither of you are willing to let live and leave others to their opinions and desires.
You both have been nonstop name calling and falsely accusing people of being idiots, liars and haters throughout this thread.
Generally, when you have the same 2 people arguing with 10 other people, and the 2 are the first to start with the personal attacks, those 2 are the problem; not the 10 others who are simply voicing their opinions and trying to have a civl discussion.

 

[A_C Guy]

Is English not your first language?

Racist comments like that are grounds for being banned from the site.
Racist comments like that have no place here. There are many people on this site whose 1st language is not English and your comment is an insult and slander towards them.
Racist comments like that show just how truly despicable a being you are.

 

[TheAccountant]

Yes, your question was meant to belittle people who don't want to pay the $200 tax.
The fragility and liberal bs have been nonstop from you and 1182.
Neither of you are willing to let live and leave others to their opinions and desires.
You both have been nonstop name calling and falsely accusing people of being idiots, liars and haters throughout this thread.
Generally, when you have the same 2 people arguing with 10 other people, and the 2 are the first to start with the personal attacks, those 2 are the problem; not the 10 others who are simply voicing their opinions and trying to have a civl discussion.

Actually it was a question. I'm not going to try to argue with you. You obviously have your own version of reality that you like to bend around to fit your needs.

 

[YNOTAZ]

What is at stake here, is everything and a couple folks can’t see past their arguments over pistol braces and $200 to see that.

Plain and simple, government has only one tool in its tool belt, FORCE. They cannot however use force without some appearance of justification. So how do they get justification, they pass a law making you a criminal. The estimate is 3-4 million pistol braces in circulation, 40,000 bump stocks, I don’t know how many California bullet buttons, or how many “assault weapons”, “high capacity” magazines, pistol grips, and barrel shrouds, the mere possession makes of these would make you a criminal.

“Accountant”, you could likely do the math but I would estimate that makes 15-20 million gun owners are criminals. And just to define the ramifications of this, if you are in possession of an unregistered gun in California, that is a state felony. Under federal law if you are in possession of a firearm “during the commission of a felony” that is a federal felony. You lose your gun rights, sit your arse in jail for 10 years, and somebody in government is full of glee because they got to use their one and only tool, FORCE.

 

[TheAccountant]

Is English not your first language?

Racist comments like that are grounds for being banned from the site.
Racist comments like that have no place here. There are many people on this site whose 1st language is not English and your comment is an insult and slander towards them.
Racist comments like that show just how truly despicable a being you are.

Now you've gone full on snowflake. Accuse someone of being racist and then call for them to be silenced/cancelled.

 

[TheAccountant]

What is at stake here, is everything and a couple folks can’t see past their arguments over pistol braces and $200 to see that.

Plain and simple, government has only one tool in its tool belt, FORCE. They cannot however use force without some appearance of justification. So how do they get justification, they pass a law making you a criminal. The estimate is 3-4 million pistol braces in circulation, 40,000 bump stocks, I don’t know how many California bullet buttons, or how many “assault weapons”, “high capacity” magazines, pistol grips, and barrel shrouds, the mere possession makes of these would make you a criminal.

“Accountant”, you could likely do the math but I would estimate that makes 15-20 million gun owners are criminals. And just to define the ramifications of this, if you are in possession of an unregistered gun in California, that is a state felony. Under federal law if you are in possession of a firearm “during the commission of a felony” that is a federal felony. You lose your gun rights, sit your arse in jail for 10 years, and somebody in government is full of glee because they got to use their one and only tool, FORCE.

I don't know why you felt the need to drag me into your babble. I never said anything about agreeing that braces should be banned. I said I owned a brace. I didn't like it. I went the SBR route. I'm glad I did so I'm not at the mercy of the ATF's regulations.

I think several of you have a fundamental misunderstanding of a law vs a regulation.

 

[cool arrow]

I think several of you have a fundamental misunderstanding of a law vs a regulation.

THIS is worthy of discussion, let's get into this without more personal attacks please.

 

[delta6]

I think several of you have a fundamental misunderstanding of a law vs a regulation.

THIS is worthy of discussion, let's get into this without more personal attacks please.

He ain't listening... :shhh:

 

[QuietM4]

Jesus, A_C clearly has serious issues and has no integrity on this subject with his caustic displays highly toxic/militancy-like feelings.

Good block obviously. Not even going to reply on what the accountant quoted with his bloviated verbose garbage chock full of fallacies.

YOU are easily the most toxic person on this board. You ruin nearly every thread you touch.

Of the 145 posts in this thread, you have 27 of them. Only 9 of your posts do not directly attempt to attack and belittle anyone.

Somehow you find the time to actually bring up relevant ideas and information on the topic, but mostly you just stir the pot.

If you don't have something nice to say, please don't say anything at all.

Where are the Mods when you need them?

 

[YNOTAZ]

I don't know why you felt the need to drag me into your babble. I never said anything about agreeing that braces should be banned. I said I owned a brace. I didn't like it. I went the SBR route. I'm glad I did so I'm not at the mercy of the ATF's regulations.

I think several of you have a fundamental misunderstanding of a law vs a regulation.

By the title you gave yourself I only welcomed a reasoned evaluation of my estimate of current and probable felons, if the ATF is allowed to continue with their current process of redefining terms.

It seems a couple folks here don't understand that some of us have been working with firearms long enough to have had personal, direct, experience with ATF and other Federal law enforcement agencies. I welcome your explanation about how you would handle violating a federal "regulation" when they changed it after the fact, as with bump stock, or arm braces, or suppressors.

I ask you, because you made the distinction and said some of us don't understand, please explain, not the dictionary definition of the terms, but the impact on you, or me, the 3-5 million Arm Brace owners, or anyone else for that matter.

 

[QuietM4]

The BATFE themselves “have a fundamental misunderstanding of a law vs a regulation”.

If you think that simply because you registered an SBR so that you “will not be at the mercy of the ATF’s regulations”, you are sorely mistaken. History proves that is a great way to get your dog shot.

 

[TheAccountant]

You're right, I'm wrong. Pistol braces are far better than SBRs. There's way more certainty in the law with pistol braces, whereas the ATF is always changing with registered SBRs. An ATF open letter holds way more authority than a law that's been litigated for 85 years. Registering an SBR and giving the government your personal information, firearm serial number, fingerprints, etc. is so dumb because they would never have that information if you just put a pistol brace on it (Don't forget to bring your CCW to the FFL when you transfer that fancy pistol AR). Sure, some of the braces cost more than a rifle stock and stamp combined, but only a fudd wouldn't pay more for a big F-U to the ATF. Molon labe!

Keep pretending that carrying on with your whining, crying, and tough guy anti-gov attitudes (especially from the ones who have been on the gov payroll their entire life) on the internet is going to change anything in our favor. For your sake, I hope the $200 tax hasn't been indexed for inflation and become a $4,000 tax when ATF "changes the rules" once again. In the meantime, I'm going to go shoot my SBRs from the shoulder, off a bipod, with a riflescope, or any other way I want without fear the boogeyman is going to get me (or that my dog is going to get shot).

 

[YNOTAZ]

He really hates those that are willing to pay for the tax even though the tax payers have shown endlessly their support for those that want braces. All I said was that I would respect the brace only folks if they would admit to it that they don't want to pay or is too bothered to do a form to travel with it as I would have respect for honest people showing integrity.

I have both, braces and a gaggle of SBRs - SBSs, and suppressors, but I would eat a pound of crap before I would pander to some A-hole that requires me to "admit" anything to gain his approval.

Exactly what's the value of this supposed Godlike approval and who would give a flying Phuck if I have it or not?

The Ego here is so big I'm surprised it hasn't broken the entire Internet.... :lol: :lol: :lol: