Tim McBride
Moderator
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Which of Western, Judeo-Christian moral codes are being violated by video games?
Why not Video Games?
- Thread starter Basher
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waterdog said:
Hey, now you’re starting to sound like someone who believes in a freedom loving society, just like the founding fathers wanted! Yay!
Ethics and morals are a tricky thing, because everybody develops their own code for them as they go throughout life. Society has established what it considers the proper code of morals and ethics as stated in law, but lots of people disagree with laws. Most still follow them because they don’t want to deal with the consequences of breaking the law, and for the most part, that’s a good thing. But sometimes laws are unethical.
Anyway, I see your point, I really do. Some things in life can be habit-forming or even addictive, yes. But outright banning them isn’t often the right answer. Just because someone can’t hold their liquor doesn’t mean that everyone else should be denied the right to enjoy it. We’d need a (wait for it) completely tyrannical government, a police or nanny state, in order to do that, and those are the very forms of “government” that the 2A was created to protect us from!
So no matter how hard you complain, you can’t have your cake and eat it, too. If they ban video games, millions of criminals of all ages would literally be created overnight driving an illegal game trade, and realistically, the problems we face today will continue regardless because games aren’t the problem. I don’t know how many more times we have to say it before it sinks in for you, but it’s the truth whether you believe it or not. If games WERE the problem, then EVERYBODY who played them would snap at some point and go on a wild killing spree, and that simply won’t happen.
shooter444
Member
Basher,... as you stated, and I agree, just because some folks can't handle their liquor, doesn't mean a form of prohibition on those who can handle it should happen.
But,... just as their are those who can't handle their booze, I believe their are some with tweaked minds that can't handle reality vs video games.
And, again,... not everyone should pay the price for the actions of a few. That is a political ploy used by those in power who wish to acquire,...more!
jmo
But,... just as their are those who can't handle their booze, I believe their are some with tweaked minds that can't handle reality vs video games.
And, again,... not everyone should pay the price for the actions of a few. That is a political ploy used by those in power who wish to acquire,...more!
jmo
Azrckcrawler
Member
Video games are popular because of the massive entertainment to cost ratio. A single $60 game can provide thousands of hours of entertainment. For those of us who grew up in the 80s and 90s there is no equivalent. Dont get me wrong, i dont agree with playing video game 24/7 but in a free society people are free to do stuff you wont like.
Honestly the only proposal I have heard that would make a difference without infringement would be eliminating the scrubbing of your juevinille record. We have a background check system but are short circulating it by allowing troubled youth to get a clean slate at 18.
Honestly the only proposal I have heard that would make a difference without infringement would be eliminating the scrubbing of your juevinille record. We have a background check system but are short circulating it by allowing troubled youth to get a clean slate at 18.
I grew up playing video games, back in the days of original Doom, Wolfenstein, etc. Occasionally play them now (PC and Xbox.)
However, I was raised with traditional values, so I understood the difference between the video game, real life, and the ramifications and realities of each.
However, these days kids are raised differently. Some kids are raised by Grand Theft Auto, etc.
A former employer was dating a woman with a ~12 year old son. This kid spent 90% of his waking hours playing Grand Theft Auto, as well as other online violent/crime based video games. This kid could sling racial slurs, profanity, and crap-talk like no other - it was disturbing what this kid was telling other people online. Him and his friends would go out of their way to try to harass/shame/degrade other kids online whether they were playing a game, chatting, etc. When not playing video games he was whiny, irritated, unmotivated, and social incapable. Both the parents (divorced) didn't want to be "the uncool parent" so they just let this kid do these things unchecked.
My wife is a teacher (one of the good ones) and she sees identical behavior in middle school aged kids who lead the same lifestyle.
Violent movies and music isn't near as altering as it isn't anywhere near as interactive and engaging as the online games. 12 year olds sitting in front of a screen for 8 hours a day playing games where you are rewarded for killing, stealing, raping, and assaulting other players is a giant issue. You can't compare today's video games to those of yesteryear. The technology and immersion is these days is crazy compared to early "violent" games like the original Doom, etc. When you factor in the interaction with other people through multiplayer - it becomes a separate reality for some people - especially children.
Video games don't carry the blame - the parents being disinterested, and allowing their kids to play these games when young is the problem. They allow the kids to spend 4+ hours a day, online, exposed to a variety of people playing as well. They don't moderate, limit, or teach the kids the difference between the real world and consequence and the "virtual" world where anything goes and is often celebrated. It is disturbing how many young kids I see playing violent games on phones/tablets when out in public - and the parents are not paying attention/don't care because it keeps the kids busy.
However, I was raised with traditional values, so I understood the difference between the video game, real life, and the ramifications and realities of each.
However, these days kids are raised differently. Some kids are raised by Grand Theft Auto, etc.
A former employer was dating a woman with a ~12 year old son. This kid spent 90% of his waking hours playing Grand Theft Auto, as well as other online violent/crime based video games. This kid could sling racial slurs, profanity, and crap-talk like no other - it was disturbing what this kid was telling other people online. Him and his friends would go out of their way to try to harass/shame/degrade other kids online whether they were playing a game, chatting, etc. When not playing video games he was whiny, irritated, unmotivated, and social incapable. Both the parents (divorced) didn't want to be "the uncool parent" so they just let this kid do these things unchecked.
My wife is a teacher (one of the good ones) and she sees identical behavior in middle school aged kids who lead the same lifestyle.
Violent movies and music isn't near as altering as it isn't anywhere near as interactive and engaging as the online games. 12 year olds sitting in front of a screen for 8 hours a day playing games where you are rewarded for killing, stealing, raping, and assaulting other players is a giant issue. You can't compare today's video games to those of yesteryear. The technology and immersion is these days is crazy compared to early "violent" games like the original Doom, etc. When you factor in the interaction with other people through multiplayer - it becomes a separate reality for some people - especially children.
Video games don't carry the blame - the parents being disinterested, and allowing their kids to play these games when young is the problem. They allow the kids to spend 4+ hours a day, online, exposed to a variety of people playing as well. They don't moderate, limit, or teach the kids the difference between the real world and consequence and the "virtual" world where anything goes and is often celebrated. It is disturbing how many young kids I see playing violent games on phones/tablets when out in public - and the parents are not paying attention/don't care because it keeps the kids busy.
Tim McBride
Moderator
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
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Grand Theft Auto V has sold 90 million copies in the U.S.
In 2017(2018 numbers won't be out till September ), there were 17,284 murders in the US.
.01% rate if you tried to directly correlate the two.
The current per capita murder rate is much lower then the mid 70s to 90s rates. It's around the late 60s rate.
Keep believing what the media is selling...
In 2017(2018 numbers won't be out till September ), there were 17,284 murders in the US.
.01% rate if you tried to directly correlate the two.
The current per capita murder rate is much lower then the mid 70s to 90s rates. It's around the late 60s rate.
Keep believing what the media is selling...
bwareaware
Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2018
- Messages
- 38
This kind of shit is as stupid as blaming the guns for the shootings. If you’re that effected by a video game you have a mental issue. Can’t separate fantasy from reality.
Tim McBride said:
I am assuming you are replying to my post so....
I am not believing what the media is selling, I don't do "media." - I am just going off personal experience here. Perhaps you missed the point of my post as I clearly stated - I am not blaming GTA. I am blaming the parents for allowing children to play these games non-stop with no moderation and allowing it to interrupt normal social development and inset a disconnect between reality and what happens in the game. Parenting in the 60s/70s/80s is drastically different than it is now. It is a generational and technological shift.
Tim McBride
Moderator
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 586
paulgt2164 said:
The 70s and 80s had a much higher per capita murder rate than today. So what is your point?
redj
Member
After reading all the posts on this thread it appears we have two basic differences of opinions.
Those that play these games think they have no effect whatsoever on those that play them regardless of their age. It actually seems like they are offended others think so.
Then we have those that don't play these games and think they do have some kind of effect.
I guess I am in the latter group.
As graphic as some of these games are , you would have to be in La La Land not to believe they can have an effect on children that set and play them for hours on end.
Those that play these games think they have no effect whatsoever on those that play them regardless of their age. It actually seems like they are offended others think so.
Then we have those that don't play these games and think they do have some kind of effect.
I guess I am in the latter group.
As graphic as some of these games are , you would have to be in La La Land not to believe they can have an effect on children that set and play them for hours on end.
Solar_Empire
Member
waterdog said:
Someone else already mentioned this but you ignored it so again, you realize there is a thing called an ESRB (entertainment software rating board) right? There is already a system in place that prevents minors from purchasing this game. The reality is parents are lazy and buy their kids whatever they want to shut them up and be the "cool" parent.
The same argument you are using for VGs is the same one the left is using for guns, it's almost sad that your brain can't make the connection...or maybe you are actually someone who wants certain guns banned because they look scary. I'll never understand the human capacity to blame objects for problems.
If you think that laws against porn, alcohol, and tobacco are keeping minors from getting them I have some reallllly bad news for you. Just like gun laws, they don't work but it doesn't stop people like you from advocating for the passing of thousands of laws that do nothing but crap on the 99% who indulge in those things and are productive law abiding members of society.
^^^I had a response typed up earlier, but I didn’t post it because I couldn’t find a way to call the OP an idiot without coming off like an ass. Glad you went with your gut!
Folks, just like the other vices mentioned, VGs are already regulated/rated, just like movies. How many kids do you think sneak into movies, or have their parents buy a ticket to one movie and then let the kid go to another? My folks bought a friend and I a ticket to some other movie so we could go see We Were Soldiers when it was in theaters.
It ain’t the game’s fault, it’s the poor parenting or self-regulation/self-control, period. Just like guns, board games, books, movies, whatever. They’re a tool/product, nothing more. Burn ‘em, ban ‘em, try whatever you want. People will still get access to them, and by and large the VAAAAAAAAAAST majority of people who partake of these products do so without any thoughts or intentions of ill-will towards others ever crossing their mind.
But y’all keep chasing those red herrings, just like the libs. At least it makes you “feel” good, right?
Folks, just like the other vices mentioned, VGs are already regulated/rated, just like movies. How many kids do you think sneak into movies, or have their parents buy a ticket to one movie and then let the kid go to another? My folks bought a friend and I a ticket to some other movie so we could go see We Were Soldiers when it was in theaters.
It ain’t the game’s fault, it’s the poor parenting or self-regulation/self-control, period. Just like guns, board games, books, movies, whatever. They’re a tool/product, nothing more. Burn ‘em, ban ‘em, try whatever you want. People will still get access to them, and by and large the VAAAAAAAAAAST majority of people who partake of these products do so without any thoughts or intentions of ill-will towards others ever crossing their mind.
But y’all keep chasing those red herrings, just like the libs. At least it makes you “feel” good, right?
Tim McBride
Moderator
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 586
2019 America is an amazingly safe place to live. The murder rate is very low, even property crime is relatively low.
The only people pimping the idea of a dangerous America are the media and politicians.
The current murder rate is HALF of the 1980 peak.
The only people pimping the idea of a dangerous America are the media and politicians.
The current murder rate is HALF of the 1980 peak.
XNARC
Member
If the nutty left has a big influence in Hollywood and the media, then violent movies, culture, will never be questioned , and the media will continue to portray guns as the problem, not the culture or influence by eroding of morals. Just as they portray the conservative bible clutching gun toting man as being toxic.
These are the days of bizzaro world, where history is being rewritten, good is now bad, God is evil, thugs are heroes, the police have become the problem, borders are inhumane, people must not be self reliant but rather be dependent upon the state, terms like brave and courageous are reserved for million dollar athletes who celebrate their homosexuality.
These are the days of bizzaro world, where history is being rewritten, good is now bad, God is evil, thugs are heroes, the police have become the problem, borders are inhumane, people must not be self reliant but rather be dependent upon the state, terms like brave and courageous are reserved for million dollar athletes who celebrate their homosexuality.
XNARC
Member
Maybe just tin-foil information, from the Internet...
From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [“]united force[“] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court
From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [“]united force[“] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court
shooter444
Member
XNARC said:
I quoted your post above, because I think it was worth pointing out, good post imo.
I really only wanted to comment on how some guys here will claim the VG's, as innocent, without any affect on children, because they don't experience any from personally playing, extensively.
Yet, in the same breathe these guys will say that it is a parenting problem, because the parents use VG's to babysit a problematic child, which has bad results.
Hmmm,... I don't think you guys can have it both ways! If you are correct, in that, VG's have no affect on borderline reality tweaked children minds,... then, there would be no bad results with proper parenting, or not!
I think, as the numbers were suggested by Tim McBride,... the percentage of children, or child like minded adults, who are triggered by VG's,... is minuscule! But, knowing that ANYTHING can be a TRIGGER for the TWEAKED,... I will not exclude VG's as one trigger source,... no matter how minuscule.
TomPHX
Member
Violent video games are the AR15 of the first amendment.
BTW the same people who want to take our guns also want to take our violent video games.
BTW the same people who want to take our guns also want to take our violent video games.
shooter444
Member
TomPHX post_id=27073 time=1565561204 user_id=647]
Violent video games are the [highlight=yellow]AR15 of the first amendment.
[/highlight]
Could you give a guy a little help? I have no idea what the above, in yellow, means.
[highlight=yellow]BTW the same people who want to take our guns also want to take our violent video games.[/highlight]
Hmmm,... call me out of touch, but, I thought it is the conservatives publishing warnings against VG's and the sick minds they affect, that do mass killings,... and,... the Deep State Demonscats blaming the guns, for the same?
Violent video games are the [highlight=yellow]AR15 of the first amendment.
[/highlight]
Could you give a guy a little help? I have no idea what the above, in yellow, means.
[highlight=yellow]BTW the same people who want to take our guns also want to take our violent video games.[/highlight]
Hmmm,... call me out of touch, but, I thought it is the conservatives publishing warnings against VG's and the sick minds they affect, that do mass killings,... and,... the Deep State Demonscats blaming the guns, for the same?
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