Someone mentioned a 5.7 recently on teh board and it got me itching again. I am kind of facinated with the idea (Splinter cell) but because of the mention I went running off to youtube and found a Paul Harrell (sp) video where he shot his infamous meat target and the damage was less than impressive. Add to that its more difficult to load for than straight wall pistol cases and store bought ammo is hard to find and expensive when found ... Well .. it just begs the question .. what is its niche and what does it excel at. Not going to lie .. still interested and seeing more options.
What is a 5.7 handgun for?
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I always understood that the intent was a lightweight, low recoil pistol cartridge that could defeat soft body armor - with the last thing (pistol cartridge that can defeat soft body armor) being the real selling point for a lot of folks.
Suck My Glock
Member
BigNate said:
The problem is that the ammo designed for it that actually defeats body armor is forbidden to be sold to you and me. Although it is not supposed to be available, occasionally small EXPENSIVE batches hit the internet and can be had.
https://ammosupplyusa.com/product/federal-fnh-5-7x28mm-ammunition-ss198lf-27-grain-green-tip-hollow-point-brick-of-500-rounds/
Otherwise, with any other loading, all you're doing is slinging .22mag type performance. It's a great round for handgun hunting rabbits out to 150 yards,...if you can shoot that well. While having a 5.7 handgun is better than having no handgun, and while it might maybe be better than .32acp or possibly even .380acp under certain circumstances,...the only real advantages are that they tend to have 20+ round magazines, don't recoil much and will deafen your opponent (along with yourself).
They might be a neat range toy, but I'd never knowingly carry one into harm's way.
I am waiting for the new S&W M&P 5.7 to come out, it looks pretty cool and the price is right.
I never understood the hype regarding the round - due to the restrictions on the more interesting ammo types. However what I do like is it is flat shooting due to light projectile and high FPS. Not to mention the magazine capacity. I wouldn't mind one for "long range" hand gun shooting. I bought one of the original FN 5.7s when they came out - and disliked the pistol but loved going out and making good, repeatable hits at 50-100 yards.
I wouldn't carry one for personal defense, but the case could probably be made for shooters with certain issue with larger calibers.
I think the M&P will be the sweet spot for me to buy one - MSRP is 699 (so realistically ~550 or so on the shelf) and I like how it works as it is different than the normal tilting barrel system.
I never understood the hype regarding the round - due to the restrictions on the more interesting ammo types. However what I do like is it is flat shooting due to light projectile and high FPS. Not to mention the magazine capacity. I wouldn't mind one for "long range" hand gun shooting. I bought one of the original FN 5.7s when they came out - and disliked the pistol but loved going out and making good, repeatable hits at 50-100 yards.
I wouldn't carry one for personal defense, but the case could probably be made for shooters with certain issue with larger calibers.
I think the M&P will be the sweet spot for me to buy one - MSRP is 699 (so realistically ~550 or so on the shelf) and I like how it works as it is different than the normal tilting barrel system.
Suck My Glock
Member
If I were to be serious about such a cartridge, I'd rather play around with the .22TCM. It is length restricted due to being designed for use in the 1911 magazine envelope, but the cartridge is sooooo much easier to reload or even fabricate new brass from spent 9mm. And I like the 1911 wide-body, so there's that.
But if I were to try make a handgun round capable of penetrating soft body armor that I felt was also capable of being an actually dangerous caliber,...I'd work up a wildcat based off the 9x25 Dillon (which is just a 10mm necked down to 9mm), and neck it down further to .32acp diameter (.312)
That sucker would likely be throwing a little 71grn. FMJ at about 2300 fps. (That's 700 fps faster than a 7.62 Tokarev, which does a respectable job against Type IIA vests and even sometimes Type II).
But if I were to try make a handgun round capable of penetrating soft body armor that I felt was also capable of being an actually dangerous caliber,...I'd work up a wildcat based off the 9x25 Dillon (which is just a 10mm necked down to 9mm), and neck it down further to .32acp diameter (.312)
That sucker would likely be throwing a little 71grn. FMJ at about 2300 fps. (That's 700 fps faster than a 7.62 Tokarev, which does a respectable job against Type IIA vests and even sometimes Type II).
mock0013
Member
I am not saying it's gods gift or anything crazy but damn it's fun to shoot.
Especially with a 10.5" barrel on the PS90 SBR. The first gen FN pistol the trigger sucked bad .. worse than glock. The 2nd gen fixed that suckage, but the 3rd gen is probably pretty good and reliable.
The Rotating bolt and fixed barrel on the new S&W is really cool idea.. no spring device needed for a can would be awesome. plus that gun is thin and has a great grip.
5.7 has been hamstrung by the low-speed factory ammo after it defeated 2A body armor even with it. The hot stuff will defeat 3a. There are now 4 companies making custom HOT ammo with CNC machine copper bullets and stuff that are deadly. Throw that in the PS90 SBR with 10" barrel and two 50 round magazines you realize why the Security service used it 100-150 feet with lots of people but need accuracy from a flat projectile and something reliable unlike .22 ammo.
There are some good things about 5.7 Now since NATO adopted it.. so ammo choices are increasing and definitely more deadly ammo is available currently. at shot show 3 more types of round were announced to be made by Aguila. Palmetto State armory uses to sell 5.7 ammo by the pallet till the ammo shortage. but they are a great place to find 5.7 ammo typically and the prices are coming down. It use to be .14-.18 a round and less than 5.56. but Popularity has increased with the 5.7 AR uppers, Ruger, PSA, and FN and now S&W have pistols and newer upgraded pistols.
5.7 suppresses with .22 to 5.56 can so cheap to suppress and really small also.
Flatter shooting than 9mm
There is faster ammo that was banned. That's what law enforcement and militaries use.
Hopefully this bullshit about banning because of defeating 2A or level 2 armor is no longer relevant as police no longer run that low end stuff and are running 3 or 3A etc. or higher.
every type of crazy powerful and specific load is available from time to time based on availability.
Elite Ammo
IMPETUS SERIES DEFENSE AMMUNITION [5.7x28mm]
Speer Gold Dot Police Ammo or defensive ammo
general information about different ammo and barrel length
Especially with a 10.5" barrel on the PS90 SBR. The first gen FN pistol the trigger sucked bad .. worse than glock. The 2nd gen fixed that suckage, but the 3rd gen is probably pretty good and reliable.
The Rotating bolt and fixed barrel on the new S&W is really cool idea.. no spring device needed for a can would be awesome. plus that gun is thin and has a great grip.
5.7 has been hamstrung by the low-speed factory ammo after it defeated 2A body armor even with it. The hot stuff will defeat 3a. There are now 4 companies making custom HOT ammo with CNC machine copper bullets and stuff that are deadly. Throw that in the PS90 SBR with 10" barrel and two 50 round magazines you realize why the Security service used it 100-150 feet with lots of people but need accuracy from a flat projectile and something reliable unlike .22 ammo.
There are some good things about 5.7 Now since NATO adopted it.. so ammo choices are increasing and definitely more deadly ammo is available currently. at shot show 3 more types of round were announced to be made by Aguila. Palmetto State armory uses to sell 5.7 ammo by the pallet till the ammo shortage. but they are a great place to find 5.7 ammo typically and the prices are coming down. It use to be .14-.18 a round and less than 5.56. but Popularity has increased with the 5.7 AR uppers, Ruger, PSA, and FN and now S&W have pistols and newer upgraded pistols.
5.7 suppresses with .22 to 5.56 can so cheap to suppress and really small also.
Flatter shooting than 9mm
There is faster ammo that was banned. That's what law enforcement and militaries use.
Hopefully this bullshit about banning because of defeating 2A or level 2 armor is no longer relevant as police no longer run that low end stuff and are running 3 or 3A etc. or higher.
every type of crazy powerful and specific load is available from time to time based on availability.
Elite Ammo
IMPETUS SERIES DEFENSE AMMUNITION [5.7x28mm]
Speer Gold Dot Police Ammo or defensive ammo
general information about different ammo and barrel length
Suck My Glock said:
I think I might have been misunderstood... I'm not necessarily a fan of the cartridge - and I agree with effectively everything that you said... I don't own one - and I don't see much value in it. I was just responding to the OP's "what is its niche" question.
mock0013
Member
omegaman said:
but .22TCM guns magazines aren't reliable.
Suck My Glock said:
Pretty sure Paul Harrel's vid/s corrected that misnomer. The 5.7's sprintin' along like 500fps hotter, IIRC.
In any case, the original FN pistol, and it's Gen2 version, both feel like pigs. Odd controls, also.
The Ruger is not bad, and can be had with or without safety. However, the Rock is cheaper, outshoots it, and has better build-quality, also. I wish the Rock was available with a safety, but it's still the best feeling one on the market for now. Oh, the PSA mags are half the price of Rugers, and will WORK in your Ruger 5.7 if you have one.
mock0013
Member
Good To know that the mags and ammo have improved!
Thanks
Thanks
omegaman said:
Jeff Cooper's standard answer to the question "What's it for?" was "It's for SALE!"
The 5.7 is mostly for fun, however --
I know a fellow who dropped a javelina with one. Went down like Monica Lewinsky.
At Scottsdale Gun Club, I stood in a lane next to a young (and incidentally, hot) woman, who, although clearly athletic, was under five feet tall. She was hammering the middle out of a silhouette, with an FN 57. No recoil, and she really knew how to shoot that gun.
Personally, I just don't like the safety in front of the trigger guard. Who thought that was a good idea?
The 5.7 is mostly for fun, however --
I know a fellow who dropped a javelina with one. Went down like Monica Lewinsky.
At Scottsdale Gun Club, I stood in a lane next to a young (and incidentally, hot) woman, who, although clearly athletic, was under five feet tall. She was hammering the middle out of a silhouette, with an FN 57. No recoil, and she really knew how to shoot that gun.
Personally, I just don't like the safety in front of the trigger guard. Who thought that was a good idea?
I'll +1 the "it's for fun". I had one and it was really fun to shoot. But without the AP ammo, it was just a fun range gun for me.
Very plastic feeling, weird safety, mag disconnect that I couldn't easily disable, and very difficult cartridge to reload. (Incidentally, it's hard to reload because 1, it's small - no Dillon shellplate, 2, it's a blowback bottleneck cartridge so the shoulder gets blown forward each time you shoot, 3, it's tiny so it is very sensitive to pressure, and 4, it has a weird lacquered finish on the brass so you have to use ultrasonic to clean).
The only way I'd buy one again is if the ammo prices dropped dramatically or if I really got into Stargate or Battlestar Galactica cosplay.
Very plastic feeling, weird safety, mag disconnect that I couldn't easily disable, and very difficult cartridge to reload. (Incidentally, it's hard to reload because 1, it's small - no Dillon shellplate, 2, it's a blowback bottleneck cartridge so the shoulder gets blown forward each time you shoot, 3, it's tiny so it is very sensitive to pressure, and 4, it has a weird lacquered finish on the brass so you have to use ultrasonic to clean).
The only way I'd buy one again is if the ammo prices dropped dramatically or if I really got into Stargate or Battlestar Galactica cosplay.
AmericanEagle
New member
My ideal gun would recoil like a 22 and hit like a truck. I think 5.7 recoils pretty great, especially the M&P looks interesting, and it hits a lot harder than 22.
I haven't owned a 5.7 yet.
I haven't owned a 5.7 yet.
hairygreek
Member
Yes! Still looking for the right priced FS2000 with scope. Let alone the night vision.Boriqua said:
For 5.7 I am mainly interested in the PS90, I still think it is a superior SMG design. But the ammo costs a lot, nearly as much as .308, more than 5.56 and twice (or more) than 9mm. Hopefully all he new guns increases demand and later lowers cost.
I saw awhile ago a certain 9mm solid copper light load that went thru armor like 5.7. Should buy some for kicks... and another reason to just use 9mm. :roll:
mock0013
Member
PSA is now making 5.7 ammo and they posted for $.50 a round last week before it sold out. So ammo availability is increasing and prices are falling..
kenpoprofessor
Member
AmericanEagle said:
My EXTAR EXP does that. AR with so little recoil you can shoot it one handed and have less recoil than a 9mm. I had it at C2 the other day, kid working there was amazed and just said "damn that's loud"
Even more amazed when I let him shoot a few rounds with it, :mrgreen:
Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day
Clyde
rockbronco
Member
kenpoprofessor said:
I wanted one of those 556 extras for a while. Only got the 9mm version from extar. Did not know about them until they sold the 556 version to someone else
kenpoprofessor
Member
rockbronco said:
I don't know if they even sell them anymore in 5.56. Mine is fun, though I did have to replace the polymer FCG with a normal set. That's why I had it at C2 the other day, function checking the parts change. 3.1 lbs. unloaded, thing is just too cool for school to me.
Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day
Clyde
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