USArmy sniper course entrance exam

[smithers599]

https://www.facebook.com/USArmySniperCourse/posts/229143792741498

This event consists of firing an M4 Carbine with iron sights at 25 meters. We shoot the Army's standard M4 zero targets and we require that the impacts are within 4 centimeters.

Before you stand the bags of 15 students who failed grouping. The one event at the USASC that delivers the largest number of failures is 25-meter grouping. This event consists of firing an M4 Carbine with iron sights at 25 meters. We shoot the Army’s standard M4 zero target and we require that the impacts are within 4 centimeters [6 MOA, which is the minimum Army standard all Soldiers are supposed to be able to pass, including new recruits during Initial Entry Training.

Do not take this as the USASC poking fun, but rather as a teaching point. Units spend a lot of money and resources to send soldiers to this course. We want to graduate 100% of our students as we believe and know that snipers are force multipliers. Please take the time to ensure you or your soldiers can meet a course prerequisite.

The 39 students who did successfully complete grouping have our fullest attention. We can also include doctrinal updates, curriculum updates and re-writes, force modernization, equipment procurement for tomorrow’s sniper, equipment testing, international sniper competition, and general soldier tasks. The soldiers used their Assault packs instead of a sandbag which is why there are notable statements highlighted in TC 3-22.9.

We presented a fact that the biggest discriminator at the USASC is 25-meter grouping. For those who don’t know, soldiers will shoot, retrain if needed, then shoot again. We do not run a selection course as we firmly believe that units have already selected the soldiers attending the course. We provide a service for the Army as snipers can help shape the battlefield. The army is vastly understrength with qualified snipers and we are far from “badge protecting.”

At one point we identified that the force was struggling so bad with the M4, that we provided an M4 PMI, took students through the EST2000, then performed attempt 1, retrain, attempt 2. The number of drops was still 25-30%, meaning no change.
The USASC does not need to disclose any of this information but for the betterment of the Soldier attending. We will share data points where difficulties commonly occur."

These are not people who have been trained as snipers. These are people who have been sent by their units to be trained as snipers. But first they have to pass the "entrance exam" -- a maximum 1.6-inch group at 25 yards, shooting from prone using a backpack as a rest. Apparently, an awful lot of them (15 out of 54) can't do that.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

These are not people who have been trained as snipers. These are people who have been sent by their units to be trained as snipers. But first they have to pass the "entrance exam" -- a maximum 1.6-inch group at 25 yards, shooting from prone using a backpack as a rest. Apparently, an awful lot of them (15 out of 54) can't do that.

I would bet you'd get a similar attrition rate from the folks here

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[G34]

Unfortunately military guys are usually terrible marksman. Even snipers have a very basic understanding

 

[baja]

Wow, I thought minute of pie plate was sniper grade.

 

[QuietM4]

Think of the equipment they are using. We build guns with the best triggers, match barrels, and shoot match grade ammo.

They are using well used M4 rifles with milspec triggers and general use ammo that most likely cannot hold 2 moa. I'd bet that if one of those factors was changed (barrel, trigger, ammo) the fail rate would decrease dramatically.

With good equipment, a 1.6 group @ 25 meters is pretty easy to do. If I built an AR that couldn't group 1.5" at 100 meters, I'd start over.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Think of the equipment they are using. We build guns with the best triggers, match barrels, and shoot match grade ammo.

They are using well used M4 rifles with milspec triggers and general use ammo that most likely cannot hold 2 moa. I'd bet that if one of those factors was changed (barrel, trigger, ammo) the fail rate would decrease dramatically.

With good equipment, a 1.6 group @ 25 meters is pretty easy to do. If I built an AR that couldn't group 1.5" at 100 meters, I'd start over.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-buying-thousands-of-awesome-new-sniper-rifles-2021-3

Yes, they've used the old stuff. That being said, you should see what they have access to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LgqsWiL364


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[QuietM4]

I’m well aware of what they have access to, but that’s not what the FB post was discussing.

 

[hairygreek]

Unacceptable...

 

[smithers599]

Think of the equipment they are using. We build guns with the best triggers, match barrels, and shoot match grade ammo.

They are using well used M4 rifles with milspec triggers and general use ammo that most likely cannot hold 2 moa. I'd bet that if one of those factors was changed (barrel, trigger, ammo) the fail rate would decrease dramatically.

With good equipment, a 1.6 group @ 25 meters is pretty easy to do. If I built an AR that couldn't group 1.5" at 100 meters, I'd start over.

In the article, they noted that they tried to rule out equipment issues by substituting the fancy gear, but still got the same failure rate. Also note that 1.6 inches at 25 yards translates to 6.4 inches at 100 yards -- six minutes of angle.
The letter is an appeal to unit commanders to be more selective about who they send for sniper training. IOW, "Please test them first to see if they can shoot 6 MOA. If they can't, don't send them."

 

[smithers599]

These are not people who have been trained as snipers. These are people who have been sent by their units to be trained as snipers. But first they have to pass the "entrance exam" -- a maximum 1.6-inch group at 25 yards, shooting from prone using a backpack as a rest. Apparently, an awful lot of them (15 out of 54) can't do that.

I would bet you'd get a similar attrition rate from the folks here

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Me, me, and me.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde