US Army ditching 5.56 for 6.8

[Steve_In_29]

"Mikhail Kalashnikov wanted to update the x39 round with modern powder and bullets but he was overruled due to the Russian higher ups being sure the Americans must know something their own weapons people couldn't figure out about the 5.56."

__________________________________________

Yup,... the munition suppliers knew something about the 5.56×45mm NATO, or at least (imo) they had a good guess about it,...

"The percentage is entirely down to what individuals are involved and their marksmanship, as previously stated in the Vietnam war the american troops required roughly 50 000 rounds to kill a single enemy combatant whilst the marine snipers on average used 1.33 rounds per kill."

Everything in a Capitalist based economic system boils down to one thing,... MONEY!

And, in most cases , I wouldn't have it any other way!

Was there a point in there somewhere?

Nothing you posted applied to what I wrote.

 

[storage_man]

"Mikhail Kalashnikov wanted to update the x39 round with modern powder and bullets but he was overruled due to the Russian higher ups being sure the Americans must know something their own weapons people couldn't figure out about the 5.56."

__________________________________________

Yup,... the munition suppliers knew something about the 5.56×45mm NATO, or at least (imo) they had a good guess about it,...

"The percentage is entirely down to what individuals are involved and their marksmanship, as previously stated in the Vietnam war the american troops required roughly 50 000 rounds to kill a single enemy combatant whilst the marine snipers on average used 1.33 rounds per kill."

Everything in a Capitalist based economic system boils down to one thing,... MONEY!

And, in most cases , I wouldn't have it any other way!

WTF is "50 000 rounds to kill a single enemy combatant" mean ? Is it 50 rounds followed by 000 ? or 50,000 ? :shifty:

 

[redj]

That 50,000 rounds to kill a single enemy is a ridiculous statement anyway.
There might have been that many rounds used up during the Viet Nam war , but they weren't all fired at the enemy. Even if they were it is still ridiculous to compare it to a sniper I don't care what branch they were in.

 

[i303]

Yeah, we’ve been down this road before. It needs to happen, it’s going to happen but a literal lifetime will pass before we see it happen.

And once it’s been blessed it will take a better part of a decade to totally incorporate such transition.

 

[shooter444]

WOW!!! Some folks get their panties in a twist over some trivial shit on the net!!!

The point, gentlemen, was to try and point out the monetary gains of supplying government munitions in a time of WAR!!! Internet Trivia Stats like I posted are probably what a government contractor would consider before making further investments,,... like,... setting up production for supplying a possible major caliber change.

It really doesn't take much to find such internet trivia stats,... and it only takes about as much time to find more internet trivia stats to support it,... and it obviously doesn't take much to expose a neurotic troll triggered by a typo missed comma. :dance:

Bellow are some more internet trivia stats on rounds fired and KIA for Nam,... you do the math.
_____________________________

",...ESTIMATED 5 BILLION BULLETS FIRED IN VIETNAM: .30 caliber carbine, .30 caliber (30-06) M1 Garand, .30 caliber Browning machine gun, .50 caliber Browning machine gun (B52 tail gunners fired quad fifties downing two NVAF MiG21s in 1972), M60 machine guns (.308 caliber/7.62mm NATO), .223 caliber (5.56mm NATO), .45 caliber (M3 Grease guns & Thompson submachineguns), .38 revolver (carried by many US airmen in Vietnam).

Note: US Armored Cavalry/Mechanized Infantry/Tank Battalions carried and expended about 1/2 million rounds per battalion every 30 to 60 days. Which would be about 6 million rounds expended or destroyed per year per battalion; there were 23 such battalions in South Vietnam. Straight grunt battalions (Straight leg units/regular infantry) carried far less ammunition; each M16 bandoleer consisted of 7 twenty round magazines & the average grunt packed 5 to 7 such bandoleers But they were almost always loaded with only 18 rounds instead of 20 to prevent jamming, therefore each bandoleer contained roughly 126 M16 rounds (7 bandoleers consisted of about 882 rounds, so 10 men carried about 8,820 cartridges). Helicopter door gunners added to the formula.


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How many casualties were there in the Vietnam War?
5 million. - USA : 58'209 KIA (killed in action) + 2'000 missing - North Vietnam Army + NLF (also called Viet Cong) : 800'000 KIA + 300'000 MIA (missing in action), total 1'100'000 losses - South Vietnam Army (ARVN) : ~250'000 KIA - Vietnamese civilians : estimates vary greatly, from 1 to 4 m,... "

 

[smithers599]

Update:

“A new Army assault rifle will tear through any body armor with the pressure of a battle tank, strike from unprecedented ranges, and withstand the rigors of weather, terrain, and soldier use, Army Chief of Staff. Gen. Mark Milley told The Military Times.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-army-to-release-major-upgrades-to-decades-old-assault-rifles

Wow. Pretty impressive ballistics, General!
:roll:

 

[338lapua]

Update:

“A new Army assault rifle will tear through any body armor with the pressure of a battle tank, strike from unprecedented ranges, and withstand the rigors of weather, terrain, and soldier use, Army Chief of Staff. Gen. Mark Milley told The Military Times.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-army-to-release-major-upgrades-to-decades-old-assault-rifles

Wow. Pretty impressive ballistics, General!
:roll:

Wonder how much he is getting paid at his new job when he leaves the military for that review? I feel dumber for reading that statement. I just don't see where the ballistics of a AK-47 round copied is anything to get excited about. I own body armor that a .308 and a 30-06 is incapable of penetrating but the magic 6.8is going to shred it? Guess I better upgrade.

 

[17-21-23]

Leave it to the Army to choose the wrong round.

The 6.5Gren is a better round that chases down the 6.8 by 100yds and out preforms it after that. It gives near .308 performance from even the M4.

Nice opinion.
Well I know the Armed Forces spent more money than they should have and employed a lot of people and tested it for a long time. Now is it the best? Well EVERYONE including steve 29 has their opinion on the subject. But a lot of smart people looked into this. Now that there are all these Variants of AR's they are looking into other options. Yes 308 is always nice, so is 7.62x54.

 

[Basher]

Leave it to the Army to choose the wrong round.

The 6.5Gren is a better round that chases down the 6.8 by 100yds and out preforms it after that. It gives near .308 performance from even the M4.

Nice opinion.
Well I know the Armed Forces spent more money than they should have and employed a lot of people and tested it for a long time. Now is it the best? Well EVERYONE including steve 29 has their opinion on the subject. But a lot of smart people looked into this. Now that there are all these Variants of AR's they are looking into other options. Yes 308 is always nice, so is 7.62x54.

Did you REALLY need to necro-post in order to continue the childish quarreling that you two are going through in a completely different thread?! Knock this crap off! :x

 

[17-21-23]

Or what???
No crap going on. This is a open fourm to the public. Are you trying to silence people and their opinions too.

 

[Basher]

Or what???
No crap going on. This is a open fourm to the public. Are you trying to silence people and their opinions too.

LOL! I'm not looking to "silence" anyone, I'm looking to keep the juvenile BS to a minimum. Intellectual conversation is one thing. Digging up nearly year old threads to figuratively fling poo at another user because you guys can't contain your lover's spat is another issue entirely. I've been around through three iterations of this forum, and I'd rather not have to deal with another anytime soon due to erosion from this kind of garbage. Act like an adult, and you'll last awhile here. Don't, and you won't. Your call.

 

[17-21-23]

Yes it is my call. You only deal with it if you allow yourself to get worked up and have to say something about it.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Just think in a couple of years there will be Millions of 5.56 milsurp flooding the market @ $.15 per round.

The gov't will probably just destroy it all.

 

[17-21-23]

No way. They will keep it somewhere and when they want to help some rebels they will have it to give.

 

[ArizonaGreenTea]

No way. They will keep it somewhere and when they want to help some rebels they will have it to give.

Doubt it. This is regular politics. bureaucracy and entrepreneurship, showing face so the people can't say that the info wasn't put out there later on. What's gonna happen is the same thing that always happens. They're gonna see that they've got a bunch of 5.56 stockpiled, Lake City is tooled for it, the DoD is set up for 5.56, this is gonna get reshuffled into a "Well, we're already using 5.56, why bother rolling out a likely slow gradual and expensive change when we can just stay with this, so...", and 6.8 is gonna get relegated to select units of blah, blah, blah that need the extra firepower because they won't/don't have adequate logistics or something if they can't kill XXXXX fast enough justifying the select/specific cost(s) or some super secret squirrel teams that need it...", pockets gonna get padded with the newfound "surplus", and we're gonna bitch about the increased cost of 5.56 shit since the .Gov/.Mil is sticking with it [5.56], therefore, reducing the overall available supplies and available stockpiles in 20XX. Consistency of results of projects and studies from DoD, et al, with connected and/or the well-positioned sort making dough on the inception of and later disregard of said projects and studies. It's worked out for them so far, shit ain't gonna change until this changes. Just sayin'.

 

[17-21-23]

Nope your right. The super secret scroll teams have company credit cards that they can use to acquire anything mission critical.