Upgradeable entry-level bolt action?

[FullMetalChef]

My sons have expressed interest in hunting. As a chef I think it’s important to know Your food doesn’t start as nicely cut and wrapped in plastic, but I’ve never hunted. I tell my students they need to appreciate this. I’ve seen slaughterhouses so I’m not a total hypocrite.

I don’t know much about bolt actions. I owned a .308 Savage 110 for about a year and just didn’t do much with it so I sold it. The only other bolt guns I’ve owned have been Mosins of various flavors. And while I love C&R guns, I want something modern. I’m an AR guy and have several, including one in .350 Legend. But I just don’t know much about working on or upgrading bolt guns. Are there ones I should look at? Ones to avoid? Trying to start as budget-friendly as possible. But I don’t want to go so cheap that I don’t have a quality gun. I’m also not sure what caliber I’d want. It’s going to be shot more for distance and fun and maybe some occasional hunting, so what would be a good caliber? I don’t want to spend $2 every time I pull the trigger. I realize that nowadays it’s more difficult to find that, but still. I’m the past I’ve stuck to “military calibers” so I can source mil-surp ammo. But am I missing something much better by not looking at other cartridges?

 

[BigNate]

OK Chef - Here goes.. Please don't take offense...

Your question read to me like someone saying to you "which pasta should I use" or "should I use carrots or potatoes or pine nuts... which one?" Your question would be: "for what?" In other words - there is not enough information there to give a good answer.

I can't speak to the question of "building" a bolt gun as in my limited history in that space I've always considered that "gunsmith territory" (unlike the AR15 platform guns where uniformity due to military specifications means that you can piece together a gun from a bunch of parts. I'll be tracking this thread for answers to that part of your question - because I've thought about going down this road myself.

What is your actual budget for this? "Not too expensive" can mean a bunch of different things. There are probably people here that would think that means you are looking for a $90 eastern block surplus rifle from days past - and there are probably some blue-blood types here that would think that $1000 is a "cheap gun" (for them). So - if you can define your expectations folks can help. If I were buying an entry level rifle for a teen and were not the blue-blood mentioned above, I'd probably stick with an entry level Ruger, Remington, Savage, etc. If I were buying a first rifle for a small kid (a youth sized gun) I'd buy a cheap breach break like the Rossi .243 that I bought for my kiddos when they were young) - it was a great first rifle - but not something they were going to carry as young men / adults.

As to the caliber - I'll channel Dave Ramsey and say "I can't tell you what to do - I can only tell you what I would do. it really does depend on a bunch of things including how old he is, whether he is a competent shooter, and what he wants to hunt. Is he 7, 17, or 27? Big difference between the first and the second two. Does he want to hunt varmints and small predators (coyotes and such) or big game?

For small(er) stuff, rodents, coyotes, etc. and I'd probably point him to a .223 / 5.56X45 based platform - primarily because of the availability of cartridges and capability across that range of critters. Its certainly over-kill for a lot of things - but for the dollar it is fast, flat, and capable. He could possibly do a .22 mag instead - and the rounds will be a bit cheaper (I think) but maybe less available over time and with a lot less versatility. Non-specialty (not match grade etc.) .223 rem can be had in the $0.40 - $0.50 / round range and based on you being an AR guy he probably knows where to find some when needed.

If he is interested in hunting "big game" - Deer, elk, etc. I'd probably suggest a .308 of some sort - again - for the same sorts of reasons - you can find rounds when other stuff dries up and it is plenty of cartridge for deer and "enough" for elk provided he gets good guidance and is not planning to shoot at extreme distances etc. Non-Specialty .308 / 7.62X51 can be had between about $0.50 - $0.70 / round if you shop around.

Again - there are a TON of other variables and neither of those two is likely to be "the best" cartridge for any set of variables - but they are both capable of covering a wide range of wants / needs and they should both will allow him to get started while shooting something that is somewhat available and not super expensive.

Sorry for the novel - for whatever reason I kept coming back and adding to it...

My 2 cents... you can decide if it is worth that...

 

[FullMetalChef]

No offense taken and that’s a get comparison to use. I get the question of “what brand of knives should I get” and my answer is always “what fits best for your needs”.

I have a 10-22 so I could start with carminte hunting or use my 5.56 or .350 and go predator hunting. I’m a little torn on killing something I’m not going to eat or use. But I do realize there are plenty of scavengers in the desert that will make short work of whatever I leave out there. Eventually I’d like to hunt deer and elk. I just didn’t think that they’d be a good place to start, correct me if I’m wrong.

So setting aside the caliber discussion, are there rifles makers/models I should avoid? The upgrades I figured I’d do would be things like different stocks and triggers. Whether or not I would do the work myself would depend on what it would take to do the work. I don’t want to “bubba” anything. Lol.

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

Buy a good used " older " Remington 700 in 30.06 if you want to hunt big game.
For small game I suggest a good .22.

When it comes to varmint hunting. If you are not saving the pelts , the 30.06 will work just fine.
After all , if you are not saving the pelts , who cares how big the hole is.
If you are saving the pelts a good 22 magnum will work just fine.
I have called in and killed 100's of coyotes back when the pelts were worth selling and every one was with a 22 magnum.

 

[Doc]

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[Doc]

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[G34]

I’m curious why ppl show target of groups from guns that shoot sub Moa all day long but are rarely on the intended target.

With custom actions in the 800 dollar range there’s no reason to ever get a factory shit box rifle. Criterion many options from bug holes will spin you up a quality prefit. No factory rifle will come close

 

[Doc]

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[Doc]

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[XJThrottle]

IWith custom actions in the 800 dollar range there’s no reason to ever get a factory s*** box rifle. Criterion many options from bug holes will spin you up a quality prefit. No factory rifle will come close

$800 my be someone's "all in" budget. A $500 rifle and a $300 scope is gonna be more effective for the chef than just an $800 action on his cutting board.

 

[G34]

With custom actions in the 800 dollar range there’s no reason to ever get a factory s*** box rifle. Criterion many options from bug holes will spin you up a quality prefit. No factory rifle will come close

I disagree.

That Tikka will group is consistently 1/3 MOA and even the most respected smiths will only guarantee 1/2 MOA in my experience. 1/3 is smaller than 1/2, it’s a factor of the denominator being larger than the numerator. This can also be expressed as 0.333” vs 0.500”.

If you think that’s a “shitbox” outcome, please qualify your response.

if all tikkas shot that way nobody would built custom rifles. F class and PRS would all use tikkas. Tikka actions are smooth because there sloppy. Ive been in the sport a long time and Ive cut so many different corners. That technique you mentioned is used but ive rarely seen many high level shooters actually do that. they have multiple targets. But maybe its just not in the circle of guys i shoot with.

I personally run custom actions and custom barrels to eliminate any chances, but to each there own

 

[paulgt2164]

So umm....

We talking shooting PRS or Hunting here? This thread has went wonky with the pointless debate.

To the OP - There is some good advise here. Don't get sucked into the p*ssing contest.

IMO - You can't go wrong with any of the "big names" when it comes to a rifle.

My first choice in a "off the shelf" rifle with an upgrade path would be a Howa. I have owned several and they shoot great out of the box and you can get most common upgrades for them. They have a ton of models, and are well priced.

If you foresee the need for heavier custom down the line - Then you are probably going to want to stick with a Remington 700 or one of the Savages. These have the biggest after market user communities. However, with the advent of factory semi-custom rifles from brands like Bergara and the like - it just makes the decision more confusing.

For varminting - you can't go wrong with a CZ. I love the CZ 455 / 457 series rifles. They are well built, and shoot fantastic.

Don't forget your optic. You need to figure out what your expected range will be - and balance the optics cost with the rifle. I would rather have a $400 savage and a $500 optic than a 900 dollar rifle and a $100 optic. Don't underestimate the importance of a decent scope.

You don't need a super custom rifle to go hunting, Get a good starter rifle in a versatile caliber and shoot it. Don't let "mission creep" cloud and confuse. It isn't a complicated task - so don't make it one. When you go down the rabbit hole - it won't be as fun.

Also, there is some good folks who can help over on arizonahuntingforums.com

 

[Doc]

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[Doc]

With custom actions in the 800 dollar range there’s no reason to ever get a factory s*** box rifle. Criterion many options from bug holes will spin you up a quality prefit. No factory rifle will come close

I disagree.

That Tikka will group is consistently 1/3 MOA and even the most respected smiths will only guarantee 1/2 MOA in my experience. 1/3 is smaller than 1/2, it’s a factor of the denominator being larger than the numerator. This can also be expressed as 0.333” vs 0.500”.

If you think that’s a “shitbox” outcome, please qualify your response.

if all tikkas shot that way nobody would built custom rifles. F class and PRS would all use tikkas. Tikka actions are smooth because there sloppy. Ive been in the sport a long time and Ive cut so many different corners. That technique you mentioned is used but ive rarely seen many high level shooters actually do that. they have multiple targets. But maybe its just not in the circle of guys i shoot with.

I personally run custom actions and custom barrels to eliminate any chances, but to each there own

Good for you. I’m proud of you.