Thinking about FN FAL

[SupportTheSecond]

Many options out there from the more expensive originals made in Belgium to many others from various sources and numerous models.

What's a decent choice? What would our members recommend?

I don't mind the money but want to spend it on a quality rifle thus I am likely going to look for an original and they can be allusive. TIA

 

[aroyobob]

Spent much time on Falfiles.com?
Several categories of original Belgian rifles. The so-called "G" series, imported in the 60's. Stupid expensive. Later Belgian imports by Styer, Howco, Guns South and others. Still pretty expensive. A few Australian inch pattern rifles, I think under 200, imported by Joe Poyer, also stupid expensive.
Other factory built:
Argentinian, good quality, less expensive than the Belgian ones. Some complete rifles imported before the Bush 89 import ban. Usually barrel, upper receiver, bolt, bolt carrier and lower (with firing mechanism,) all have the same SN. Some rifles in the pipeline were separated (upper receiver is the serial numbered "gun",) into upper & lower and then sold separately. Occasionally you find those, mismatched SNs but shoot just as well. Most imported by Armscorp.
Brazilian Imbel manufactured. Sold by Springfield Armory as SAR 48. After the 89 ban Springfield switched to a thumbhole stock and called them SAR4800 but still a factory built gun and can be converted back to the original config now.
Some other factory built guns imported in small quantities. Best to check on Falfiles if you run into one you think may be one of those.
Many many Imbel receivers imported and used to build complete guns on parts kits imported from Brazil (so Imbel on Imbel parts kit,) as well as Austrian Styer parts kits (STG-58's.)
Some Argentinian receivers imported and built on various kits.
In recent years German G1 kits imported and built on a variety of receivers. See Falfiles for more discussion.

Any of the above - from original G series Belgians to Imbel parts kit guns on Imbel receivers would be good.

Really, the key factor is does it run well. If you buy from a private party and it doesn't run well you're stuck getting it fixed so best to go with a high likelihood of success combination. Or get a DSA and they'll warranty the gun. In Arizona, Mark Graham, AZResponseSystems is a known FAL gunsmith but with long wait times.

Century built guns from Imbel and Argentinian receivers plus other receivers. CAI guns have a so-so reputation, some run fine, probably those built on factory receivers, others not so much.

Quite a few US receiver makers, some good, some less so. DSA is the only one still in business. Coonan, Enterprise
Hesse had a bad reputation.

Many many parts kits imported. Israel, Rhodesia, inch-pattern from the UK, Canada, Aus. Lots of variety out there.
Some US receivers were cast, some were forged. Endless debate.

 

[That Guy]

Previous post mostly nailed it. Sear cut FN “G” models and Poyer imports? Unless you have a 2022 Bentley in your Paradise Valley garage you paid outright with your debit card forget about those. I like real FN’s only cuz’ I have a fondness for originals but they now pretty expensive. I’ve seen guys buy Springfield Armory FAL’s and get awesome rifles and then I’ve seen a few guys have to repeatedly send them back under the warranty until they were finally fixed. Hesse FAL’s should be stripped of their parts and the receivers buried with radioactive waste-they are that bad. Which leaves parts kits FAL’s, which can be good, really good, bad, and really bad. I have three pieces of advice if’n yer going to buy a FAL not made in a long established factory:
Research
Research
Research

 

[aroyobob]

Get the headspace checked. Important on any gun but especially so on parts guns. Headspace is controlled by the locking shoulder which is replaceable if necessary.

Magazines. Original steel surplus are probably the best. Israeli, Belgian, etc.. Some alloy surplus floating around. Some aftermarket made, may work, dono.

Speaking of magazines. Inch vs. metric. British Commonwealth (UK, AU, CA,) are inch. The magazines have a rectangular metal bit on the front edge that fits into a rectangular cutout in the front of the mag well. Metric, (the rest of the world,) have a little half-moon projection on the mag that fits into a cutout in the mag well of that shape. Metric mags can fit (supposedly,) in Inch receivers but inch mags won't fit in metric receivers.

Steel cased rounds. I wouldn't shoot it in a Fal. Some people do but the general "internet" consensus is don't. YMMV.

 

[brandyspaw]

I don't know much about FAL's but I have a couple of things I can input. Most of my trials and tribulations were from my lack of enough knowledge concerning FAL's.

I bought a new DSA FAL that was supposed to be built as an STG-58 a few years ago. It was during one of the many panic buying eras and I got it since I wanted another FAL in case the custom build I was getting was a bust. However, that DSA seemed to be mismatch of parts as it even had a bolt with sand cuts on it indicating it was a bolt from an Israeli FAL.

Once I had more knowledge about them I found that it turns out little on my DSA FAL was Austrian STG-58 except the muzzle device and the steel handguards. It was a true mutt and the moral of the story is get an older DSA as the tightening parts situation has made parts scarce. I'd agree to get on the FAL files and see what the current situation is in FAL land since the loss of receiver makers and lack of parts kits has made the FAL situation very different from what it once was.

The other FAL I have was made by Courtland Sweet who was CourtinFL on the FALfiles back in the day. He built this FAL on an Imbel kit. Court also shortened the barrel to 18" and modified the gas system. However, it was built on a Century marked receiver which greatly diminishes the value despite Court having checked and re-machined the receiver to make sure it was in spec. That's why I decided to get a DSA FAL since they had a good reputation. Turns out my Imbel/Century build works great so I sold that mis-matched DSA before I even fired it.

Short of one of the now expensive factory builds previously mentioned, the best option is getting a completed gun that a quality gunsmith built. Or have T. Mark Graham in Surprise build one if he will. He wasn't taking on any builds when I checked but that was years ago. Rumor has it he bought up a ton of FAL parts kits when they've been available so the only stickler is sourcing a receiver. Either way won't be cheap. A final slightly cheaper option is finding an used older DSA.

 

[Suck My Glock]

Yes,...these posts pretty much cover it.

The world of FALs is as diverse and phuked up as the AK world. You just never know what you're gonna get when you buy a parts gun. Could be great; could be crap. And even DSA, who used to crank out quality guns off of the original Belgian tooling, has in recent years employed unqualified people to run their production line to try to keep costs down, which resulted in out-of-spec receivers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg9ZlQPYQfc

If you do end up looking at a parts gun, the best indication it is likely to be a functioning specimen is if it was assembled on an IMBEL receiver. These were common and affordable 20 years, so most kit guns were made on them early in the FAL kit gun craze, and most of them work, unless assembled by some ham-fisted knucklehead.

Whether you choose an "inch pattern" or "metric" FAL, consider the availability and prices of magazines. (Inch pattern tend to lock up more reliably, but are more difficult to source and cost more.) They also differ slightly in looks, so there may be an aesthetic difference depending on which you prefer. I always liked the looks of the metric pattern guns vs. the commonwealth guns, particularly the Paratrooper shorter barreled "bush rifles".

And if you run across one of the aluminum receiver guns,...run away before it spontaneously explodes.

 

[SupportTheSecond]

Thank you all for the great info, we really have some knowledge here!

 

[20gauge]

I have a Mark Graham build on a Coonan receiver. No problems.

 

[h8pvmnt]

To further your quest, here is some info on the G series rifles. A quick check shows two for sale on GB today 12000,16000 is the price range on those 2.

If your trying to buy an original gun research research research, there are people out there passing off kit guns as originals. Price will be a good indicator, but not always.

I have a Century L1A1 that was reworked by AZEX and its a really good rifle except the receiver does not have the correct lightening cuts of a true l1a1. Paid 399.00 for the rifle in 1994, probably that much in bringing back to its previous glory. Great rifle. If only kept one it would be this one.

I also have a STG-58 kit rifle built on a DSA reciever that is good to go. Paid 800.00 for it and never done anything to it except swap out the metal handguards.

Have 2 DSA factory rifles, one a ban era Israeli FAL Heavy Barrel that i had AZEX fix the front end to remove the fake flash hider. The second DSA rifle is a post ban Urban camo Para rifle that has been 100% with zero mods or malfunctions. But both of these rifles were built when DSA had parts and good people.

I want a G Rifle but i am afraid i wouldn't shoot due to rarity it and the prices have sky rocketed. Wish i would have bought one when 5K was a lot of money.



What is a G Series?

There were a total of 1,848 G Series FAL's imported by Browning Arms. Additional information below is a summarized version of an ATF letter sent out in 1974 regarding G Series FALs:




Department of the Treasury Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

ORDER ATF 0 7540.1
9/11/74

Subject: CLASSIFICATION OF BELGIAN FN LIGHT SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLE (FAL) CALIBER 7.62mm

1. PURPOSE. This order identifies certain FN FAL 7.62mm rifles
which are not classified as machine guns and thereby are
excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

2. CANCELLATION. This directive cancels all previous
instructions concerning the classification of FAL rifles.

3. BACKGROUND. From September 5, 1959 to January 10, 1963,
the Browning Arms Company, St Louis, Missouri, imported 1,836 FAL
rifles in caliber 7.62mm from Fabrique Nationale, Herstal,
Belgium. Subsequent to January 10, 1963, the Bureau
classified this rifle as a machine gun. However it was
determined that the 1,863 rifles imported by Browning would be
exempt from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
Additionally twelve FN FAL rifles were imported through an
administrative error in 1974. These 12 rifles are also exempt
from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

4. EXEMPTED FAL RIFLES. Following is the final revised listing
of FAL rifles, calibre 7.62mm, which are exempt from the
provisions of the National Firearms Act.

a. G SERIES

Serial Numbers Units
G492 through G494 3
G537 through G540 4
G649 through G657 9
G662 through G673 12
G677 through G693 17
G709 through G748 40
G752 through G816 65
G848 through G1017 170
G1021 1
G1033 1
G1035 1
G1041 through G1042 2
G1174 through G1293 120
G1415 through G1524 110
G1570 through G1784 215
G1800 through G1979 180
G1981 through G1995 15
G3035 through G3134 100
G2247 through G2996 750
----
1,815


b. GL SERIES

Serial Numbers Units
GL749 1
GL835 1
GL1095 through GL1098 4
GL1163 through GL1165 3
GL2004 through GL2009 6
GL3135 through GL3140 6
--
21

STANDARD FAL -

Serial Numbers Units
889768 1
889772 through 889777 6
---
7

c. PARATROOP MODEL

Serial Numbers Units
889800 through 889801 2
889803 1
889805 1
889809 1
--
5

TOTAL EXEMPTED FAL RIFLES 1,848


5. DESCRIPTION OF MARKINGS. All G Series and GL Series FAL
rifles will be marked FAL. cal. 7.62 on the left side of the
receiver and Fabrique Nationale D'Armes De Guerre-Herstal
Belgique on the right side of the receiver. The selector
positions will be marked "S" for safe, "R" for semiautomatic,
and "A" for automatic. The selector lever is designed so that
it cannot be rotated to the automatic position.

The Standard and Paratroop Models will have the same markings
as above plus "Browning Arms Co. Arnold Mo. and Montreal P.Q."
on the right side of the magazine well. The selector lever
can be rotated to the automatic position but the rifle will
fire only semiautomatically.

6. ACTION. If a rifle bearing one of the above serial numbers has
been converted to fire full automatic, it is classified as a
machine gun and is subject to all the provisions of the
National Firearms Act.

[signed]

REX D. DAVIS
Director

 

[h8pvmnt]

https://gunsarizona.com/classifieds/firearms/ad/pre-ban-fn-fal-genuine-belgium-made-308-rare-paratrooper-folding-stock-50-61-24328

Guns AZ Ad from Snowflake AZ.

 

[delta6]

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/126375747_c-fantastic-lowest-recorded-serial-number-fabrique-nationale-g-series-fal-semi-automatic-rifle

 

[SupportTheSecond]

I ended up ear marking the money for a new Yamaha, maybe one day a FN will be in my safe.

 

[knockonit]

hehe, am setting on two fnfal paratrooper kits, with barrels, and a half dozen receivers for the other belg units, i have in kits, may get around to assembling them once i retire, and have a few south american tear downs, have assembled a half dozen over the years, can be a pain in the keyster if you cant ' find some of the parts,
sure are a hoot to shoot, sold the last one i built to a member here. i still owe him a mag, which i have not found yet, ugh
Rj

 

[QuangTri]

Great reading. THe FAL is on my bucket list to at least shoot. Only modern battle or assault rifle of that era never handled and fired.

 

[mtptwo]

I built myself one based on some Argitina kits that came in 5-6 years ago.
If you go the build route, the tools alone are going to cost you your left arm. Regardless of which way you go, build or buy new, the end cost will come out about the same. $1000+ for the gun.

If I had to do it again, I would just buy new.

 

[delta6]

To further your quest, here is some info on the G series rifles. A quick check shows two for sale on GB today 12000,16000 is the price range on those 2.
....
I want a G Rifle but i am afraid i wouldn't shoot due to rarity it and the prices have sky rocketed. Wish i would have bought one when 5K was a lot of money.
.....................

Yep....$5K would have been a bargain.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/126375747_c-fantastic-lowest-recorded-serial-number-fabrique-nationale-g-series-fal-semi-automatic-rifle

$16,640 with buyers premium

 

[h8pvmnt]

Out of my potential price range for sure.

 

[ee123]

Had a Century R1 that was genuinely pretty good for being a Century gun. Your milage may vary. I'd say a safe bet is a used kit build on an imbel receiver or a DSA

 

[792mauser]

I have 1 Springfield 4800 and 2 Imbel.
I'm shocked at the prices of em now. I paid the most for the 4800 years ago, and that was around 600.

Nowadays..... just the receiver is that.

 

[mashed68]

Before one buys a FAL, they must ask themselves, am I man enough for this glorious weapon?
Back in the day I bought a rhoadisian parts kit and an imbel "gear logo" receiver. Had it built by Derek at AZEX [no idea what happened to that guy or shop though]. Its my favorite gun.