The mind set that bullets over penetrate in homes

[Elk34]

There is this mindset that people worry about which round do I want for home defense. I've heard it over and over and over. Everyone is so worried about the round they want to use in the home. I'm tired of this mindless crazy sh!t.

Let's look at what you find in a normal home build. I will make this short. Glass windows, drywall, wood, carpet, steel and concrete. I can find a round that will penetrate all of it. If that's my target I'm going to damage it or go through it.

Maybe we need to talk about training. If you shoot at a target do you miss. A average indoor room is 15 feet, 5 yards. Let's stop worrying about what we are carrying, and more about our training. Point center mass squeeze and kill the mother F#cker. Don't worry about missing and going through a shitty door or a wall. Put the bullet into soft tissue. O what about the intruder. Should you put a sign on the door and say, if you want to burglarize my home we only allow 9mm or whatever. My answer is train ,train, train.. If you can't hit a target you shouldn't be in charge of the gun period. They are the ones that will need a handyman to fix all their home destruction. Use what ever the hell you want, in reason, just dont miss.

 

[delta6]

Ranger Danger.....Ranger Danger....

 

[Tech0552]

I know I’m walking right into this, however...if someone wants a specific round or gun for home defense then why does it bother you? It’s a rhetorical question of course

 

[smithers599]

Ranger Danger.....Ranger Danger....

Ayup.

 

[Tim McBride]

I don't disagree. We often worry about shit like caliber, bullet selection, platform, etc instead of focusing on the one thing we all KNOW actually makes a difference, and that is training to actually hit your target under stress. Which means work, and time. Which is why people revert to 'quick fix' solutions like magic bullets or the perfect piece of gear that they think will bypass all the hard work.

 

[javelinadave]

NVGs and a tack hammer.
Stealthy, silent and deadly.
What more can you ask for?

 

[Pale Rider]

Ranger Danger.....Ranger Danger....

PAINFULLY obvious.

 

[smithers599]

Ranger Danger.....Ranger Danger....

PAINFULLY obvious.

Remind me -- what are some of the other aliases?

 

[Tim McBride]

You guys let the fact of who it might be posting worry you more than what the content was.

 

[Elk34]

I'm just saying, newbies that want to protect their homes ask questions like these. What caliber do I need. What weapon does everyone think would be good for home defense. Honesty what ever you can afford. But the one thing no one talks about is can you shoot a target at 15 feet? It doesn't matter what type of hammer you buy, framing, ballpeen, claw. If you can't hit the nail who cares what hammer you have. Now I know everyone has a favorite caliber, that's fine. I'm not Ranger1, but I have read a lot of his threads. He has some good things and some not great things he talks about. I have read a lot of these threads about caliber and home defense. Everyone talks about everything other then being proficient in shooting. That's all.

 

[Suck My Glock]

Obviously,...hit your target and the point is mostly unimportant.

However,...many have discovered (myself included) that of the "effective" calibers, the one which tends to penetrate the least amount of interior home stuff and break up most easilly to avoid riccocheting off into somewhere or someone else,...is 5.56 soft-point or hollowpoint.

Now one can argue that the light frangibles in .223 and 5.56 such as the 40 and 50 grain varmint rounds do not penetrate enough to maximize the caliber's potential. Very well,...I'm not here to argue that it is equal to or on the same level as a .45acp Gold Dot or whatever. My only point is that no one wants to stand in front of anything loaded in that caliber, and it penetrates fewer wall studs, drywall, flower pots, cans of Spagetti-Os or whatever. Merely from the liability standpoint of the original poster, it is a caliber capable of dropping someone rather well, and does so with the least amount of over penetration concerns. Whether it is an optimal choice for your situation or not,...only you can answer.

 

[Tim McBride]

Obviously,...hit your target and the point is mostly unimportant.

However,...many have discovered (myself included) that of the "effective" calibers, the one which tends to penetrate the least amount of interior home stuff and break up most easilly to avoid riccocheting off into somewhere or someone else,...is 5.56 soft-point or hollowpoint.

Now one can argue that the light frangibles in .223 and 5.56 such as the 40 and 50 grain varmint rounds do not penetrate enough to maximize the caliber's potential. Very well,...I'm not here to argue that it is equal to or on the same level as a .45acp Gold Dot or whatever. My only point is that no one wants to stand in front of anything loaded in that caliber, and it penetrates fewer wall studs, drywall, flower pots, cans of Spagetti-Os or whatever. Merely from the liability standpoint of the original poster, it is a caliber capable of dropping someone rather well, and does so with the least amount of over penetration concerns. Whether it is an optimal choice for your situation or not,...only you can answer.

I'm a big fan of using a AR15 in 5.56 for everything I possibly can. It's an effective round, has limited over penetration due to yaw, etc. I carry a pistol because my SBR just isn't practical for running to the store(yet). I will say that however it is an easy topic to get lost in the weeds about, and we tend to spend more time debating it, then actually talking about shooting.

I'm not a fan of the Bill Jordan/Ed McGiven style of point shooting that was taught to LE and others for so long. It's not to say that I don't see some value in it, or think that it's complete shit, it's just not the 'best' method for me. I find I'm more interested in a 'traditional' style that focuses on shooting fundamentals and the addition of things like movement, Force on Force, tactics to that base skill set. But always shooting to me at least goes back to ensuring that you have your fundamentals down. You need to be able to make hits, make them fast, and make them first.

Training that is often overlooked, especially for handguns, is dry fire. I know I am notorious for not spending enough time on it. And I know that it's the one thing I can do cheaply and easily to improve my base fundamentals.

 

[laserguy]

Training, Training, Training...TRAINING absolutely is THE most important factor, not the gun, not the bullet used, not the sight, not the accessories...Tighten the screw behind the gun first.

That being said it should NEVER offend or upset someone on a forum when an honest question about a topic the forum is dedicated to is asked...that is the ENTIRE point of a forum. If you dont like the question being asked then scroll on past and have a nice life, dont turn into a hater over something that does not impact your life in any way.

 

[Elk34]

I would say going to the desert and shooting from positions that you would be in, in your home. Put a target up shoot from a seated position from chair, ground, knees, stomach, from one knee from around a corner. All from 7 to 15 feet. It's also good to go out at night and practice using a flash light at the same distance.

 

[Worldwatcher]

There is this mindset that people worry about which round do I want for home defense. I've heard it over and over and over. Everyone is so worried about the round they want to use in the home. I'm tired of this mindless crazy sh!t.

Let's look at what you find in a normal home build. I will make this short. Glass windows, drywall, wood, carpet, steel and concrete. I can find a round that will penetrate all of it. If that's my target I'm going to damage it or go through it.

Maybe we need to talk about training. If you shoot at a target do you miss. A average indoor room is 15 feet, 5 yards. Let's stop worrying about what we are carrying, and more about our training. Point center mass squeeze and kill the mother F#cker. Don't worry about missing and going through a shitty door or a wall. Put the bullet into soft tissue. O what about the intruder. Should you put a sign on the door and say, if you want to burglarize my home we only allow 9mm or whatever. My answer is train ,train, train.. If you can't hit a target you shouldn't be in charge of the gun period. They are the ones that will need a handyman to fix all their home destruction. Use what ever the hell you want, in reason, just dont miss.

Not today ISIS!

 

[cool arrow]

I prefer a plain old 12ga for home defense, no worries about over penetration, and in a bind, they require less time to aim/target acquisition

 

[xerts1191]

= shotgun