So let's talk about the SIG issues lately...

[admin]

I'm a big fan of SIG. I think their stuff is high-quality and it's no secret that the P226 is my all-time favorite handgun.

However, recently, it seems that they have had some launch failures. First the P320 "drop fire" issue and now the P365 dead trigger and broken striker issues.

SIG has acknowledged them, and in the case of the P320, stopped short of a recall and offered a "voluntary upgrade" to the trigger, which will fix the issue - but you have to reach out to them and send them your gun. They only offered this after a youtube video broke, actually demonstrating the issue.
One day later, they moved on it. For the P365, which is a newer gun targeting the CCW crowd, there have been reports coming in of broken strikers/firing pins and broken trigger bars that result in dead triggers - neither of which you want to happen in ANY gun, much less a CCW gun. SIG has - so far - commented that it's not an issue and seems to have essentially said that the issues are still "well below the typical failure rates" and still well within their lofty expectations for reliability.

Could it be that the internet is sensationalizing something and making it appear to be a bigger issue that it really is? Could SIG's quality have declined in a corporation's never-ending quest to make more money? Could SIG be refusing to acknowledge an issue they knew/know about because they don't want to acknowledge what would amount to a black mark against a brand known for quality and reliability? Could they be doubling-down and avoiding a recall because gun manufacturers are one of the few (or perhaps only) manufacturers who are not allowed to have the government force a recall?

Without bashing SIG, I'm curious to hear what others think of SIG lately. The P365 is a gun I was REALLY looking forward to (I currently CCW a GLOCK 43), but I simply won't buy one now - and the launches combined with SIG's hard-headed, somewhat obstinate response to these real issues has me really thinking hard about my viewpoint on SIG.

Thoughts?

 

[Viper 1-26 INF]

I love SIG and H&K handguns (I'm partial to hammer guns), but currently only own older German SIGs. I was interested in the P365 as a backup gun, but then began to see videos and reviews with the issues you mentioned, and have decided not to pick one up yet and may not for some time, if at all. Now that the issues seem to be worked out of the P320 platform, I've been looking pretty hard at the x-five and x-carry, and will most likely pick one up here shortly. I haven't had any problems with any of their hammer-fired guns, and maybe them being newer to the striker-fired game is part of the issue lately. I guess overall I'll just wait to purchase new pistols from SIG until they have been out for a couple years and all issues are corrected.

 

[admin]

Does their response/non-response to the issues I mentioned make you think twice about buying a newly released model from SIG (ie, if they released a new model next week)?

If so, would you have the same thought about purchasing a new model SIG 5 years ago?

 

[AZ Husker]

I never buy a gun until it's been on the market for several years. Look at all the beta testers Glock led on with their early G42's. I can't discuss SIG because the only one I've ever fired was an old P226 that was issued to me for a short while. Hated the long first shot and light double action afterwards.

 

[brandyspaw]

I can't help but wonder if the outsourcing of most of their parts from India might have something to do with their quality issues. I don't think that MIM parts are necessarily bad but getting them from places that use substandard metals and production methods can't be helping their situation. (As for me, I have several SIG's but they're all older German guns and I'd be hesitant to buy their newer stuff.)

 

[semperfisurveyor]

Like Viper said, I’ve had great experience with the hammer fired P-series.

Love the accuracy and reliability that I’ve had and that has led me to own more than a few...

I’ve taken the plunge and acquired a P365 (G2) and experienced the reliability I’ve come to appreciate from Sig pistols - BUT -
I do have apparent drag on my primers and that has been a cause for hesitation in it replacing the P290RS for summer carry.

I’m looking into a stronger recoil spring and non-MIM striker to alleviate the issue. ...and I knew it was a ‘spankin’ new design and that I was a voluntary beta tester, as such...but I really liked the fit, feel and potential of the design.

That said, I do not trust it like I do some Sigs I’ve had for years - didn’t expect to.

SHOT show undoubtedly rushed the release - I’ve had EXCEPTIONAL service from Sig throughout the years and I’m sure they will eventually dial in the details. Hopefully their haste won’t destroy the reputation they’ve built...but current leadership at Sig makes that suspect.

 

[admin]

Seems to me that SIG has tried to reduce costs to compete with all the other polymer guns. When they were top-shelf, they were all-metal frames. That's not the trend anymore, and once they started worrying more about cost and competing directly with the lower-cost guns, they had to cut some corners. I'm confident that their engineering is still top-notch, but the problem likely lies with the Finance teams within SIG that made the decisions on where to cut those corners. I'm sure MIM parts in India are cheaper than MIM parts from Germany or the US.

What's funny is that the quote I saw from SIG said that they were essentially only seeing "0.25%" of the guns being sent back with an issue. My first thought was that it was an interesting way to word it: one-quarter of one percent... but in reality, that's 1 our of every 400 guns. Seems like a pretty high issue rate to me. Further exacerbating it is that this is a new gun that's been out for how long? It's not like the majority of these that are out there have had many rounds through them - yet they have parts already failing? Will other parts fail? What will be the failure rate when the gun has been out for 2 years?

SIG; you are disappointing me.

 

[semperfisurveyor]

New guns having teething issues isn’t really anything new...

...neither is quality control of a gun company under Cohen’s supervision taking a significant decline in the quest for greater profit margins.

 

[Muzap]

I don't believe the quality of the Sig is any better or worse than any other major reputable manufacturer. I see a lot of hype about "oh noes, Indian manufacture!" and a lot of teeth-gnashing about MIM and a lot of repeated stories (like the MAC video) about a couple of individual occurrences, but most of the poo-slinging I see is based on "...I read it on the Internet..." sources. I don't see a lot of real documented evidence for widespread or even frequent failures. I do see a lot of hysteria and repetition based on what appears to be very few instances.

I put my money where my mouth is and bought one a couple of months back. I shoot it a lot. It has run perfectly. I've been a Glock guy for a long time - I've done some shooting with the P320 and came away unimpressed compared to my G19 and G17 Glocks - but for my personal preference, the G43 doesn't hold a candle to the Sig. Neither does the Shield or the LC9S Pro, and I've shot them all side by side, and own an LC9S Pro (that would be my second choice after the Sig). The P365 is more comfortable, more accurate and holds 42.9 % more ammo (66% more than the Glock). I don't trust it any less than I would a G43.

Documented facts and verifiable statistics. That's what would convince me that the Sig is less reliable than any other decent single stack 9. And that's what I'm not seeing a lot of.

 

[Joe_Blacke]

Don’t forget about their rifles.

Mcx had recall issues

Mpx was delayed in production for a long time. Lots of promises about switch calibers and kits that never evolved.

Complete abandonment of support for entire lines of rifles so owners can’t get replacement parts or warranty work.

Ron Cohen is the source of all this. He ran Kimber into the ground and he is following the same game plan for Sig.

 

[Azbuilder]

I move slow with new releases from anyone. As for Sig, I love my p220's and they have been free from any problems except those induced by me.

 

[admin]

I don't believe the quality of the Sig is any better or worse than any other major reputable manufacturer. I see a lot of hype about "oh noes, Indian manufacture!" and a lot of teeth-gnashing about MIM and a lot of repeated stories (like the MAC video) about a couple of individual occurrences, but most of the poo-slinging I see is based on "...I read it on the Internet..." sources. I don't see a lot of real documented evidence for widespread or even frequent failures. I do see a lot of hysteria and repetition based on what appears to be very few instances.

I put my money where my mouth is and bought one a couple of months back. I shoot it a lot. It has run perfectly. I've been a Glock guy for a long time - I've done some shooting with the P320 and came away unimpressed compared to my G19 and G17 Glocks - but for my personal preference, the G43 doesn't hold a candle to the Sig. Neither does the Shield or the LC9S Pro, and I've shot them all side by side, and own an LC9S Pro (that would be my second choice after the Sig). The P365 is more comfortable, more accurate and holds 42.9 % more ammo (66% more than the Glock). I don't trust it any less than I would a G43.

Documented facts and verifiable statistics. That's what would convince me that the Sig is less reliable than any other decent single stack 9. And that's what I'm not seeing a lot of.

I have to disagree with most of that. I have no dog in this fight; I want to like the P365. But there isn't anything even remotely similar out there about the GLOCK 43's and failures or problems - and there are a TON more of those out there. The worst thing I heard about the GLOCK 43 is that it had a heavier trigger than was advertised, and GLOCK acknowledged that and offered to replace it with a lighter trigger. This info about the SIG issues is NOT a case of glock-lovers conspiring to sink SIG. Even anecdotal evidence from youtube reviewers shows a high failure rate - and there aren't a lot out there yet (not like the GLOCK 43's), or many with high round counts, yet there are comparatively a lot of issues.

I'm just disappointed in SIG as a company. Make the gun more robust with better parts and charge $50-100 more for it and keep your reliability [SIG] intact. Please!

 

[Basher]

I, like many others, am not an early adopter of anything. I don't want to use my hard-earned money to be a beta tester, regardless of the product in question.

That having been said, I've had the same thoughts as you. I've never owned a Sig, despite wanting to do so for some time now. Older German stuff has my interest, but their polymer stuff has never been a draw for me. While I am a solid Glock guy, most polymer pistols don't interest me much (with a few noted exceptions such as the HK UPS and VP9 or CZ's P10C), so maybe that's more the issue. Either way, I'll be letting things play out for awhile before I consider anything new from Sig.

 

[Jack Dupp]

All my Sig pistols were built 9 or more years ago and have been awesome. I can't speak on the newer stuff. What chaps my hide is that I really like the Sig 556R, and they not only discontinued it but won't service it as well. Sig seems more interested in marketing than in "engineered reliability" these days.

 

[superdrag67]

I think some of it might be internet drama but I've seen enough confirmed cases from separate individuals having problems that at this point I wouldn't trust one with my life. Maybe it was just a bad batch of strikers (I know there have been other issues besides this) but I'm not willing to risk it. I'll stick with what's been proven for now. Hoping by 2019 they'll have all the bugs worked out and I can pick one up to replace the shield.

 

[Harrier]

Back in 2012 I bought a brand new Sig P290 It went back 6 times for a couple of issues, they always said it was fixed but came back with the same problems... they finally replaced the gun with a new one and a couple weeks later came out with the P290RS but wouldn't upgrade/replace mine to the new trigger. The replacement has been fine since but Sig brand never again gets my $$ unless its for an older German made sample.

 

[Flash]

I'm a big Sig fan. I've got 5 P220s, 2 P238s, 1 P239 and an MPX. All have been flawless since the day I bought them. The members of my weekly shooting group probably have another 15 or so between them and none of them have had any problems.

OTOH, none of us buy a gun when it first comes out. We don't like to be Beta testers, so we wait a year or so and then buy.

I'll remain a Sig fan.

 

[87jeep]

Said it well Flash...With "don't like being a Beta tester"

Always bought my sigs with experience. so a spring change out and go.

 

[deserttrans]

I love my Sigs.. All makes have some issues at times. I too like to wait a few years after a new model has had reviews and the bugs worked out.

 

[Flash]

I'm a big fan of Sig. Got 5 P220s, 1 P239, 1 P226, 2 P238s and 1 MPX. Never had a bit of trouble with any of them.

Also, the people in my weekly shooting squad have a bunch of Sigs, probably another 20 or so between them and none of them have had problems either.

OTOH, none of the people in the squad buy anything until it's been out for a year or more so that probably explains our lack of problems.