Shooting buddies with bad muzzle discipline?

[Chuck]

I've got a few......bad on me.
Hard situation to handle.
After about the 4th reminder to 'Watch where you're pointing that fuggin' gun!',
one has to give up and find a better buddy to shoot with.

 

[shooter444]

Good subject, not brought up very often.

I have quite shooting with a couple guys who, a long time ago, over many years,...

1)sweep me with their muzzle,... ONCE, and then I am finished shooting for the day. I don't give second chances on this one.
2)don't check chamber or lock bolt back/open when not shooting
3)shoot from behind my line of fire
4)drink, or, was drinking prior to shooting,...If I catch this one soon enough, no shooting even begins by me, I am gone
5)after two accidental discharges down range and off target

Now, I shoot mostly alone and have no range problems,... other than hitting my target!

 

[Crippledtrigger]

A Slap on the face should solve that.

Well after a warning and full disclosure that you subscribe to the Gny. Sgt Hartman method of behavior modification for dangerous fools. It's worked in my family every time. My little brother was an unrespecting arrogant shooter who used to have major lapses in muzzle discipline. After a second time, and multiple warnings for, pointing his weapon at me and dad in the same day he got an open slap upside his face/head. A few seconds later after the bell stopped ringing he was wondering why he's laying in the dirt when he was reloading a second earlier. My dad told him he had gotten his last warning earlier and should expect the same response for further transgressions. Probably been 40 years and I've never seen him do it again.

The cause of this is arrogance over familiarity and ego. Guys who think they know it all and have been shooting so long that they lose respect for the instant death in their hands. They are the dangerous ones. They wouldnt be so careless if they or you had a black mamba in hand.

Just tell them what's up. If they throw attitude then phuckem, there are certain things you just can't allow or you're just as responsible for the incident. We dont insist on things like this be followed every time we touch a weapon because were being an asshole devoid of the ability to have fun, we do it because that one time you trip, fall, are bumped into or a rare malfunction like the sear failing on your old double barrel as you close the action and you aren't following the rules the results can be devastating and you can't raise people from the dead.

 

[Suck My Glock]

I've been lucky over the years to have only serious gun buddies. Although my latest friend is a flippin drunk, and that's no exageration. Inebriation is his regular status. To his credit, however, he has been so well indoctrinated with proper safety that I have yet to catch him make any mistakes. And he usually stops drinking long enough to head out and crank off some rounds. Usually. It bothers me and I keep an eagle eye on him. He has many redeeming qualities that keeps me from ending our odd couple friendship. I normally would not tolerate an alcoholic in my life.

 

[Flash]

I've only had one buddy with muzzle discipline problems and it happened after he discovered better living through chemistry.

In his defense, it was prescribed medications, but he couldn't handle it so I quit hunting with him.

 

[samnev]

Thank god the range Shoot at has very strictly enforces muzzle discipline. In the 25 years I've been shooting there I only remember 1 instance of a shooter with muzzle discipline problems and was quickly warned "no more chances" ,

 

[shooter444]

Personally, bottom line, I feel that a second chance for a muzzle sweeper is just a rare form of Russian Roulette by proxy.

 

[Exorpmtech]

It's just like riding motorcycles. You want to ride with me, don't ride like a jerkoff. You start pulling wheelies in traffic, I'm take my next right you can go ahead. Come with me to the range and keep doing stupid shit, I won't go shooting with you anymore.

 

[Super Trucker]

I will remind a new shooter once, if there are "experienced people" that do it it is time to quit the first time it happens.
It probably isn't wise to give new people a warning, but nobody is perfect so I feel it is best to try to teach them right.

 

[Berd]

Most of the guys I shoot with train and compete regularly so muzzle discipline is great. I don't have to worry about it.

I recently went shooting with my future father in law, who's just a regular gun guy, gun handling wasn't spectacular, but he was very safe. Let me know when he wanted to go down range, never pointed a gun anywhere unsafe.

I'm just lucky I guess.

 

[shooter444]

I will remind a new shooter once, if there are "experienced people" that do it it is time to quit the first time it happens.
It probably isn't wise to give new people a warning, but nobody is perfect so I feel it is best to try to teach them right.

Hey Super Trucker,.... I don't think there is a more profound way to teach a newbie about sweeping, than to have them realize the severity of such action, by ending the range time abruptly with a specific explanation that sweeping will not be tolerated.

There is always another day to shoot.

But, this is my way,... you sound like a nice, forgiving kind of a guy,...where as, I am an ornery old bastard!

 

[deserttrans]

Good subject to bring up!! Just went over all this with my grandson last week. One can not over emphasize!

 

[Hedley lamarr 23]

Had a few... Dumped a few..im down to 1 good one.. Thats all

 

[17-21-23]

This one time my buddy and I went out to zero his 300 ultra I forgot the spotting scope and radios. He had a can of orange marker paint in the truck from work. I know how this guy shoots so I feel fine for what I did next. I grabbed the paint and headed down range with target. Got out to 400 yards put the target into ground took 5 steps off to side. He sent the first one low right. I sprayed it, he corrected. We did that 5 more times. Soon he was dead center. I walked out to 700 and repeated the same thing. We were out of there pretty quick.

After thinking about the main post. I believe it should read, Shooting buddies with bad trigger discipline. Muzzles dont kill people.

 

[Mauser98]

I've pretty much always had good luck with it to be honest. With new shooters I am extremely vigilant. I did have a female one time who wasn't quite getting it. I was teaching her how to shoot using a S&W K-frame. She was doing fine except I couldn't keep her from bringing the muzzle down (pointed a foot or two ahead of her toes) even though I told her to keep it straight forward at least 5 times.

 

[17-21-23]

It usually takes 36 times and a close call to burn it into your brain

 

[smithers599]

Happened to me yesterday. Ran into an old friend at the gun show, and he invited me to come shoot with him and his buddies in their secret spot out in the desert. My friend is an excellent gun handler. Of the two other guys, one is OK, the other is That Guy. He brought his .50 Barrett, his high-dollar AR15s and AR10s, a Nighthawk .45 and matching 9. Nightforce scopes, Leica rangefinder -- apparently he had plenty of money to spend on the best toys. He was in his 60s, so he was not a beginner. He was "experienced" - experienced at doing it wrong for many years. He had his finger all over the trigger, and "dangled" the pistol alongside when he was not shooting. I mentioned it to the friend who had invited me. He mentioned it to That Guy -- who then replied with the infamous Words Of The Fool: "It's not loaded." I will not shoot with anybody who says those words. First of all, yes it was. And second, whether they are loaded or unloaded, All Guns Are Always Loaded. The safe gunhandling rules apply to all guns; there is no Unloaded Gun exception.

I will not be going out with them again. My friend, sure. But if That Guy is going to be there, I'm not going to be there.

 

[Pipedoc]

I'm pretty picky about who I shoot with so it's not normally a problem. However new shooters need lots of one on one attention to help prevent it. If it becomes a problem after explanation, then they can learn from someone else.

 

[smithers599]

I'm pretty picky about who I shoot with so it's not normally a problem. However new shooters need lots of one on one attention to help prevent it. If it becomes a problem after explanation, then they can learn from someone else.

The transgressor here was not a "new" shooter. He was a guy who has been shooting for 40 or 50 years, who probably owns 100 guns, reloads, life member of the NRA, considers himself an "expert." I can cut a new shooter some slack, because he needs the opportunity to learn. But this guy will never change, because he doesn't believe he needs to. Why should he worry about finger discipline and muzzle discipline? After all, it's OK to make exceptions when "it's not loaded." Those are the telltale words: "It's OK; it's not loaded." Anybody who speaks those words has self-identified as a yahoo.

 

[Pipedoc]

Dad always said "treat them all as loaded all the time" I've been doing that for 45 yrs and taught my kids the same. Can't wait to start teaching my Grandson, but don't think he's mature enough yet.