Savage w/synthetic stock-worth the hassle?

[Buckshot Bill]

Thinking about a tupperware stocked Savage 110, but have read that the stocks are flimsy and take a lot of work to stiffen them up - epoxy, steel rods in the forearm, lead shot/some kind of filler in the butt stock, etc, etc.
Do any of you have one of these and If so, did ya have to go to all this aggravation to get it to work for ya?
Or would I be better off with a wood stock or a Boyd's laminate stock in the first place?
Thanks for your suggestions,
Buckshot Bill

 

[Viper 1-26 INF]

I have a Savage Model 10 FCP-SR 308. I didn't care for the stock, so I put it in a MDT LSS Chassis. However, I do have some problems with my wrist and cannot comfortably shoot with a standard stock on bolt action rifles; having more of a vertical pistol grip works much better for me. I wouldn't say the stock was too flimsy, I've had worse in some cheaper rifles, but I wouldn't say it was the best either. My LSS Chassis definitely is more accurate/precise.

 

[brandyspaw]

After having so many Remington 700's over the years I became feed up with the newer Remingtons so I bought a Savage 10FV in 223. That's one of their cheaper varmint gun versions that Cabelas sells. It had the typical flimsy Savage injection molded stock and I had to do a little work on it to get it to shoot consistently.

Before I worked over the stock if I put pressure on the barrel when the gun heated up it would cause the groups to walk. All I did was spend some time by epoxying an all thread rod into the forearm and made sure the barrel was free floated. I also epoxied some lead into the butt stock to get a little better balance with the long heavy barrel. I'll likely upgrade to an aftermarket stock some day but for right now its not too bad for a cheap gun.

 

[Buckshot Bill]

Viper, thanks for that info. I'd like to make the original work if it won't take too much work.
Brandyspaw, is there a particular name brand epoxy that works better than others for this job that you like? Everybody writes about using epoxy but I need to "get ejumacated" about which one is better/best. I'm not opposed to giving it a try-heck, that's how ya learn!
Much obliged for the help.
BB

 

[shooter444]

I have a Savage HOG HUNTER. I had issues with the plastic stock, at first, but eventually got it working for ME, when I filled it with dead primers. Takes a few minutes. Being 308 I wanted it for longer distance work, so, with butt filled, a medium heavy barrel profile, heavy Burris scope and detachable bipod, I am right at 15 pounds.

Exactly what I wanted.

I LIKE hollow butt stocks now, which I thought I would never come around to. I like that set up so much I bought a hollow plastic butt stock for my Marlin444. I can add weight when I develop some heavy recoil reloads, and then lighten it up when heading to the mountains. Remove two screws, dump the weights, replace two screws, just a couple of minutes and your done.

I understand some find the Savage free float plastic stocks can affect groups. My HOG HUNTER has a heavy and short barrel profile and have not found this to be a problem.

Hope this helps.

 

[brandyspaw]

Brandyspaw, is there a particular name brand epoxy that works better than others for this job that you like? Everybody writes about using epoxy but I need to "get ejumacated" about which one is better/best.

I used JB Weld Epoxy to glue the threaded rod into the barrel channel and then used a tube of clear construction silicone to fill the channel level. I recall that for gluing some lead in the buttstock I just used construction silicone to keep the weight stable in there. I didn't put a bunch of lead in the buttstock as I just used some to get a better balance. I did use the construction silicone to fill up the void.

 

[Buckshot Bill]

Shooter 444, I've seen the Hog hunters and they're kinda appealing to me as well, and it does look like that shorter and heavier barrel should shoot well. That's a unique way of adding weight to the butt stock that I hadn't considered and bears some consideration. Thank you.

Brandyspaw, the JB weld epoxy is what I needed to know about as I was concerned that some products wouldn't bond to the plastic that the stock's made of.
I'd already thought that silicone would be an easy way to caulk some weight into the butt stock, and will give that a try.
My thanks as well.
Buckshot Bill

 

[shooter444]

Buckshot Bill, I would be cautious about gluing the weight in the butt stock. You never know when you may wish to take some out.

When I first started experimenting with adding weight, I found using a huge wad of poly fiber and sometimes chunks of foam to cut down on used primers noise/movement, was easily reversed without hassle. Now, I have come to enjoy a rattle free full butt stock of used primers, for maximum weight. Really great for my heavy recoil reloads!

 

[Harrier]

The cheaper Savage come in two types of stocks.. one is the plain Tupperware you seem to be talking of and the other is called the Accustock. It has an aluminum bedding block molded in which effectively beds the receiver and free floats the barrel. Other than weight to the butt, I'm not sure if anything would be gained doing the additional stiffening work to an Accustock.
You can often find new take-offs on GunPartsCorp website pretty cheap, but be very sure which model Savage you have and what fits what... as some have different cutouts for the new/old safety-trigger and you may end up with something that doesn't fit and needs modded or has gaps where you don't want them.

 

[shooter444]

Both the "accustock" and the cheaper "tupperware stock", free float the barrel. I have the cheaper "tupperware stock" on my Hog Hunter with a heavy profile barrel and have had no free float issues while using a bipod.

 

[Harrier]

Free floating is not the issue in this case... what is, however is that you can bend/flex a Tupperware stock to touch the free-floated barrel.

The difference is... that the Accustock has an aluminum 'lug' that extends from the receiver almost to the end of the forearm- negating the stock flex common in the Tupperware stock- and the need as to why people epoxy all-thread and other stiffeners into the forearm.

 

[shooter444]

Yes, I understand that it can be forced to bend and touch the barrel. I just wanted you to know that by using my bipod, I never had the forend touch the barrel and affect its free float. Maybe they all are not molded the same.

Try it, put a bipod on and try to slide a piece of paper between the barrel and the forend. You may be surprised.

p.s., I could be wrong, but I believe that a CONSTANT SOLID RESISTANT PRESSURE is needed to actually affect a free floated barrel, as it warms up. Even if the Savage flimsy forend does lightly touch the barrel, as flexible as it is, I doubt it would cause enough pressure on the barrel to affect its accuracy/harmonics, jmo.

 

[tobylazur]

I ended up switching my Savage model 10 from the factory stock to a Bell and Carlson stock because all i heard was how flimsy the factory stock was. It didn't make a difference for me. Lightening the trigger, finding ammo it liked, and getting a good option made a far bigger difference than changing stocks.

 

[Harrier]

Back when wooden stocks were standard, the argument for plactic was it didn't warp and touch the barrel affecting accuracy. Now that the standard is plastic they are saying it has to be stiff etc. perhaps its all initiated by the aftermarket $tock companies so you will buy their $300 replacement.
Even a lot of the factory free-float wood stocks had a nub at the end that touched the barrel. IIRC, Unless an action was solidly bedded, was custom free-floated, or had action pillars, it was necessary to support the end of the barrel.

 

[pvreb]

I bought a 30-06 Savage with the plastic stock a few years ago. I have been looking for a way to stiffen the forearm. Will try Brandyspaw's suggestion. Guess I never verified that the stock touching the barrel doesn't affect the accuracy, but my experience with a previous rifle with a warped wooden stock says it should. With the other rifle I floated the barrel and all was good.

What size of threaded rod did you use, Brandyspaw?

 

[shooter444]

A solid wood stock is not the same as flimsy plastic one. Testing the harmonic interference of any stock is quite simple. First, establish the free floated barrel's group size. Then, simply shoot as many rounds, as fast as you can, to heat up the barrel. If the established group size from a cool/warm barrel remains the same as when heated/hot, it ain't broke and don't need fix'n.

Of course, this test is only as accurate as the barrel is. If the barrel is not capable of consistent groups, cool/warm/or hot, nothing will change it to a accurate shooter. Except for possibly a cryo treatment.

jmo

 

[brandyspaw]

What size of threaded rod did you use, Brandyspaw?

I really can't recall for sure but I think it was 1/4" thread all. I was thinking I could pull the stock off my Savage to check but I'd filled the channel with construction silicone after I epoxied the thread all rod into the stock. So that likely won't help much plus my stock has a wide beaver tail type fore end so it might take a different size rod than a slimmer hunting stock.

Best to just get the biggest threaded rod that will fit in the center channel of your stock.

 

[pvreb]

I really can't recall for sure but I think it was 1/4" thread all. I was thinking I could pull the stock off my Savage to check but I'd filled the channel with construction silicone after I epoxied the thread all rod into the stock. So that likely won't help much plus my stock has a wide beaver tail type fore end so it might take a different size rod than a slimmer hunting stock.

Best to just get the biggest threaded rod that will fit in the center channel of your stock.

Thanks.

 

[Harrier]

Stock touching a barrel, will affect accuracy, especially a warped one. run your dollar bill down the length of the barrel after it heats up from a few shots. I've never really come to an opinion about the nub the factories put at the end of the stock. On one hand I can see its purpose but I always think it has to affect accuracy somewhere along the line.
My Accustock doesn't have one and appears to be a true free-float while my Rem stock looks like a free float but has 2 little nubs on the sides

 

[shooter444]

Ahh, "THE NUB".

I have thought about it, and, in line with my thoughts that a flimsy, flexible plastic fore end that GIVES to any pressure that may be caused by a warming barrel, the "NUB" keeps the other portion of the plastic fore end from possibly being melted from some extreme shooting/heating of the barrel. Basically I see the "NUB" as maintaining a flow of air between the barrel and the fore end.

Obvious to me, is that, manufacturers have figured that a barrel touching the fore end of a very flexible fore end can maintain an acceptable FREE FLOATED BARREL result.

As I have posted, if the barrel expands/moves to the point of touching a portion of the stock that has so little resistance, that it moves, rather than adversely affecting barrel harmonics, where is the problem.