Rioters Arriving in AZ

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It's a little odd and maybe it's just the articles that make the news but ... If self defense is justified what does it matter what tool you use to defend yourself.

At what point during the mobbing of a car are you justified in fearing for your life and using whatever means nessesary to defend it.

I guess unfortunately some of these people who have been confined because of running a blockade and injurying someone will have to go through the system so we can get an answer.

Bummer for them.
 
https://theconservativeopinion.com/watch-desantis-warns-portland-rioters-to-stay-out-of-florida/
We will prosecute
 
xerts1191 said:
https://theconservativeopinion.com/watch-desantis-warns-portland-rioters-to-stay-out-of-florida/
We will prosecute
Click to expand...

Man he is pushing hard for the nod come 2024. Cool .. lets hope he goes for it and the diggers dont find to much poop in his closet. He might have tried to kiss a girl when he was 12 and then ... he is out :cry:
 
Boriqua said:
At what point during the mobbing of a car are you justified in fearing for your life and using whatever means nessesary to defend it.
Click to expand...

Legal standard for determining reasonableness and “fear for my life” is known as AOJ.

Ability
Opportunity
Jeopardy

All three need to be present.
 
Joe_Blacke said:
Boriqua said:
At what point during the mobbing of a car are you justified in fearing for your life and using whatever means nessesary to defend it.
Click to expand...

Legal standard for determining reasonableness and “fear for my life” is known as AOJ.

Ability
Opportunity
Jeopardy

All three need to be present.
Click to expand...

So the mobs "ability" to inflict life threatening damage
The "opportunity" to inflict it and .. not sure I get the jeopardy part?

Who determines or how is jeopardy determined. I guess however the jury sees it but is there a text book definition?

I would think?? being in a mobile cage might remove some jeopardy but does it?

I still think the only way this can come out in the wash is to have a few juries make a determination and judges to rule accordingly. I will never forget Reginald Denny and the video when that went down. I think he would have been better off pushing down on the gas.

Edited. I looked up jeapordy because while we all have a sense of what it means I wanted to be sure there wasn't a subtly I was missing .

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jeopardy

It would seem to me that being trapped in a car while the mob tries to break the windows to get at you fits all the criteria for self defense. Perhaps it is the randomness of the person chosen as the aggressor since launching the car doesn't select a single person as the one causing a self defense reaction. It seems so obvious ,from clips I have seen and nothing more, that it's clearly self defense.
 
Ability is capability. Is there a weapon? A mob could be demonstated as capable by the sheer ability of overwhelming force that could lead to serious bodily injury/death.

Opportunity usually means proximity. If I told you over the internet I was going to shoot you, I don’t t have the opportunity. If I told it to your face, I most likely have opportunity to commit the act.

Jeopardy is the articulation of the two combined. Think of it as a and o plus a culpable mental state such as knowingly or intentionally. The mob has the ability, the opportunity, and appeared to intend to cause serious bodily injury or death.

This is the standard cops and prosecutors use when looking at charging to prosecuting a case. Juries look at reasonable doubt meaning how well did the prosecutor prove his case.
 
Just watched the video from Texas. Clearly doesn't meet the criteria for self defense that some of the other incidents have but ... I can see the guys frustration.

They sure take a fistful in taxes to provide some basic services and not having cops there to clear the street is a shame. Well .. I will chalk it up to more republican voters being created everyday. Its like the Obama Biden gun sales numbers. They seem to be expert on creating what they want to destroy.
 
Joe_Blacke said:
Ability is capability. Is there a weapon? A mob could be demonstated as capable by the sheer ability of overwhelming force that could lead to serious bodily injury/death.

Opportunity usually means proximity. If I told you over the internet I was going to shoot you, I don’t t have the opportunity. If I told it to your face, I most likely have opportunity to commit the act.

Jeopardy is the articulation of the two combined. Think of it as a and o plus a culpable mental state such as knowingly or intentionally. The mob has the ability, the opportunity, and appeared to intend to cause serious bodily injury or death.

This is the standard cops and prosecutors use when looking at charging to prosecuting a case. Juries look at reasonable doubt meaning how well did the prosecutor prove his case.
Click to expand...

Well said - thank you
 
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