Reloading for Self Defense- Opinions

[Rpowell600]

Do you use handloads for your self defense ammo? Are there actually legality issues regarding the use of your own handloads vs factory loaded? I cant seem to find a clear answer and its 50/50 down the middle. Considering you have to practice with what you carry its extremely cost effective to load your own.

 

[Boriqua]

I cant see any legal implications at all and have personally never heard of any.
but
I am certainly not subject matter expert in everything so if you have some information on how using reloaded ammunition has caused legal issues in a legal shooting I would be very interested in reading about it.

I dont reload my defensive ammo solely because I havent gotten reloading down to the point that I would trust my life to it. I am a newbie with only a year and a couple thousand rounds made and if my life depends on it I dont feel qualified.

I am however a hard personal critic. I still dont trust my motorcycle mechanic (me) and I have a year and 4000 miles on my last rebuilt motorcycle.

Having said that. I just loaded up a tray of .357 I feel pretty confident in and may become one of my walking in the desert rounds.

 

[Ranger1]

A while back I was reading one of the NRA magazines and this came up. In court in front of a hand picked jury this guy had made his own ammo and the argument the prosecutor was putting forth was that it was over kill. He purposely made his ammo to kill more. Now I know this sounds stupid but he can argue this in front of a jury. That's a problem . It goes on and is said that when it comes to defense ammo a good start would be to carry what ever bullet the State Police use. Why ? You can produce a box that it came in from a manufacturer, and you could call to that stand any state police officer and ask him what ammo he carrie's. .If it's good enough for the state it's good enough for me. It doesn't give them any direction to go in when it comes to you using that ammo in a shooting.

 

[Boriqua]

I had heard that before and truth is my walk around ammo is 124 gr Gold Dot standard pressure. Pretty standard LEO round I undestand.

A reasonable person would think that what mattered is whether deadly force was justified or not and not the manner in which it was implemented but even if it cant be used against you in court ... you really cant unhear something the prosecutor says as a jury person even if the judge says you should so I guess it could influence the more gullible jurors against you.

 

[shooter444]

:liar: I carry what I load. I load all my 45acp loads insufficiently, at lower velocity and muzzle energy than any factory/PD round sold or used, so that I only wound, and not kill, my attacker. :liar:

:lol: Testify to that, when in the witness stand!!! :lol:

Actually, I do load down all my 45acp pistol loads, self defense rounds included. I prefer less recoil for rapid fire shooting that results in more bullets on target,... for me! I carry what I shoot!

I like putting a half dozen rounds on my 9" gong, at 15 yards, as fast as I can pull the trigger!

 

[338lapua]

I have heard don't load your own to carry or carry a gun with any modifications, I do both. I have never been shown the court transcripts of the so called cases where a person was convicted of shooting someone in self defense or even given a hard time on court over it.

I load for several police departments and it usually the police that are asking if we can make the ammo more deadly or can we get another 50-100fps with the same recoil and pressure. In some cases I have.

Prosecutors belong on the bottom of the ocean with the rest of the lawyers and judges.

 

[Flash]

Anybody remember Harold Fish, convicted of murder here in Arizona and a large part of it was that he used a 10MM, which the prosecutor thought was too deadly or something along those lines?

He ultimately got off and admittedly his first lawyer was a total loss, but I can see some idiot prosecutor trying to make a case over handloads that are "too deadly" although to the best of my knowledge it's never happened.....yet.

 

[shooter444]

I remember the case, but also remembered it incorrectly. You are correct, the power of the 10mm was brought into question. I thought,... that he had hand loaded his defense ammo,... was in question.

 

[Boriqua]

I remember the Fish case but I never read the transcript so everything I know about it is basically hearsay and what I read on the news.

I don't "think" he went down because of the gun or ammo. "Legally" there is no way he could. The gun and ammo were not outlawed items.

The reason I quoted legally is because I do believe it was used to prejudice the Jury which in essence brings you to the same place but as far as I know there is no legal culpability in the ammo or gun you choose.

If a prosecutor wants you, and they don't get points for losing, then they will use everything they can to undermine you including race, upbringing, skin color, college of choice, facebook posts and yes .. your choice of firearms.

Even if your attorney is on the ball and leaps to his feet and screams bullshit and the judge agrees ... what does it matter .. 12 regular people with their own hangups already heard it and it cant help but impact their opinions.

Not to make the thread all about Fish but .. I wonder why his attorney never brought up he was on a rather lonely hike in the woods and the 10mm just happens to be a great anti animal gun and that might be why he chose it that day.

I wasnt there that day but ... it does sound like he got screwed.

 

[Flash]

No, I'm not saying he went down because of the gun or ammo, I'm saying the prosecutor kept stressing it to the jury to convince them he was a sociopath just waiting for the chance to kill someone.

If you've ever been on a jury you can understand exactly what I'm saying.

 

[Harrier]

I use Federal HST for carry but load a similar bullet at similar speed for practice. Same with my AR, oem stuff for loaded mags and something similar for practice,
If I ever have to use either for SD then whatever is currently in the gun at hand is what I'll use.and not worry about it.
I test enough different loads so often that it would be happenstance if I had some super killer in the mag at the time and I wouldn't bet aware of it.

 

[Rpowell600]

I have heard of most of what you guys have brought up and like I was saying, its usually split down the middle on yes or no. We can all agree almost any time you would have to pull the trigger in a self defense, life or death scenario we will be faced harsh scrutiny from the jury. I guess it may not be a bad idea to do what Harrier suggested and load some similar SD rounds for practice and carry the factory produced stuff.

I too carry a modified firearm so I may have some point deductions there. Stock, factory, modified, or handloaded, I would think its safe to say we would all be shitting bricks in a court room hoping the jury/judge wasnt anti and having a bad day......

 

[Desert Rat]

I have also heard statements from both sides. I have only heard on the one case mentioned above where they brought up the choice of ammo. With that said, there are enough people out there that can't use common sense, so I will continue to use factory rounds to hopefully eliminate that possible path.

 

[TheAccountant]

Deadly force is deadly force. If you're justified to shoot someone with a 22LR, then you're justified to shoot them with a 300 Win Mag. The bs about reloads is just internet folklore.

 

[Ranger1]

Deadly force is deadly force. If you're justified to shoot someone with a 22LR, then you're justified to shoot them with a 300 Win Mag. The bs about reloads is just internet folklore.

Well if I have to go to court for killing someone in self defense I'm not going to count on this ideology being BS. If the state police use Hydro shock or what ever. I will carry that. I will also find a supplier that carries the bullet and build my reloads for the range identical as my carry ammo. I can't and won't put my faith in the ammo not getting looked at in court.

 

[Azbuilder]

I use Federal HST for carry but load a similar bullet at similar speed for practice. Same with my AR, oem stuff for loaded mags and something similar for practice,
If I ever have to use either for SD then whatever is currently in the gun at hand is what I'll use.and not worry about it.
I test enough different loads so often that it would be happenstance if I had some super killer in the mag at the time and I wouldn't bet aware of it.

Same here, keeps things consistent for me. What's the cost of a couple of boxes used for carry when I reloading so much for practice and save there.

 

[TheAccountant]

Deadly force is deadly force. If you're justified to shoot someone with a 22LR, then you're justified to shoot them with a 300 Win Mag. The bs about reloads is just internet folklore.

Well if I have to go to court for killing someone in self defense I'm not going to count on this ideology being BS. If the state police use Hydro shock or what ever. I will carry that. I will also find a supplier that carries the bullet and build my reloads for the range identical as my carry ammo. I can't and won't put my faith in the ammo not getting looked at in court.

Using your logic, I don't see how you feel comfortable carrying anything more than a rimfire derringer. The idea that carrying hand loaded 38 specials, 9mm, or 45acp somehow makes you more of a killer than factory loaded 44mag is kind of ridiculous. Where does that stop? 15 round mag? You're just out to kill. Spare mag/speed loader? You're out to kill. Hollow points? You're out to kill. You carry a gun? You're out to kill.

Luckily, the law isn't constructed that way anyway there isn't a single place in the law that delineates between calibers, cartridges, power, etc. There's also no place in the law that allows you to shoot someone without it being deadly force, so your choice of firearm is irrelevant. Before you go bringing up Fish, remember his conviction was thrown out because that trial was a sham, and if you really look at it, the idea that his conviction hinged on the cartridge he was carrying is pretty laughable. On top of that, the Fish case caused the self defense law to change so that the burden is placed on the prosecution to prove it was not self defense, as opposed to Fish's burden of proving that he was acting in self defense.

 

[Mauser98]

10mm was brought up in the Harold Fish case but that was a really bad shoot. His story made no sense. He was afraid that the dogs were attacking him so he shot the dogs' owner, who had no weapons and had not tried to attack him at all.

 

[Ranger1]

Who cares. I don't believe the NRA would have put it in a publication of theirs if it didn't mean anything. Huh believe you over the NRA. You have got to be kidding me right??? :dance:

 

[shooter444]

Deadly force is deadly force. If you're justified to shoot someone with a 22LR, then you're justified to shoot them with a 300 Win Mag. The bs about reloads is just internet folklore.

BADA-BING,... we have a winner!!! Oh, and, no one is ever charged with "self defense". :dance: It's just not a crime!