reaming 223 to Wylde

[Harrier]

Some of the reloads i developed for my 5.56 guns crater a little more in 223 chambered guns than I like to see. However they do look normal when shot in an AR- no pressure signs.

I came up with the idea that if there was a little more throat & leade and also while I'm at it, change the shoulder angle to either AI or Wylde, it would allow me to shoot at 5.56 pressures without additional worry. I could also make sure I use magnum primers to help with metal flow. What do y'all think? or is the hardening of the steel different and even with the modified chamber, the pressure limit is still 55,000 psi?

Second part of this question... Should I take it to a gunsmith or can I just rent a finish reamer and give it a few turns by hand? I have a full set of HS gages and know how to use them.

 

[deanq]

Get a ,223 throater. You won't be able to keep your headspace in spec if you run a Wylde reamer through it, no matter how light you think you are going. JMHO, YMMV.
If you want to run the Wylde, set the barrel back and rechamber. Again, JMHO, YMMV.

if you REALLY think the gods are on your side, Try it; you may get lucky, but be set up to do a setback/rechamber. Good luck!
BTW-This might not fix your problem. Best bet is to develop loads for your bolt gun and run 'em.

 

[Harrier]

Thanks for your assessment deanq,
Yeah, setting the barrel back would be the problem I want to avoid, then I would take it to a gunsmith... If it were a Savage then there wouldn't be a problem but messing with a Remington is a whole different animal.

I could develop loads just for that gun but then the logistics issues between it and the AR's set in. I try to find a load that shoots well in multiple guns, then load a thousand to put away for future use.

With the TAC I'm testing at the moment, max loads (and then some) seem to be where the accuracy node lies. My AR doesn't show any excessive pressure signs... I've chrono'd .2 increments from 23.8 to 25.2 in 5-shot groups and the best in most of them is at the high end.
I plan on trying a couple more .1 increments but the bolt gun has showed signs of top-hatting - which is too bad as it got to .34 MOA.
I'm also not impressed with TAC velocity vs load manuals- getting 200-300 less than book from a 2" longer barrel.

eta... I've increased the test load to 25.5gr, and the groups have start to open up... so my choices are 24.6 or 25.2 as my load but velocity is no where near book. If i didn't already have TAC, I'd go back to AA2250 which gets me 200-300 more fps.

Initially I thought the shoulder angle would be a sharper angle (AI would be) that could mess with my headspace... but comparing the cartridge dimensions, it shows base to shoulder-start of 1.4378 (.223) and 1.4381(Wylde) and to the shoulder-front/base of neck as 1.5571(223) vs 1.5574(Wylde).
Again this is a cartridge case drawing. So the shoulder would need to go 0.0003" further in...so based on this it theoretically should work. The drawing shows both shoulder angles at 23deg so this shouldn't play a part in the metal needed to be cut... I could consult some reamer dims and SAMMI chamber specs and draw it up in Autocad to check it. I would be removing metal at the shoulder back to achieve it and the datum line would then move slightly further in, any error then increasing headspace...

Also ... 0.0003" is a pretty thin cut with no margin for error, even for an experienced machinist- I now see why you recommended a rechamber and setback... I should probably just forget it and wait until I get a Savage switch-barrel I can play with.

The 223 throat reamer is an option... thanks for mentioning it.

 

[Squirrel_Slayer]

Traditioinally a .223 AI has .002" tighter headspace than .223 rem. This was by design to allow the case to crush fit into the chamber to aid in fireforming. (when you fireform it is possible for the case to stretch at the web rather than the shoulder which could lead to incipient case head separation....ask me how I know )

Now both have their pro's/cons.

.223 is allowed in several shooting classes if you get into competition shooting (ie. FT/R for example)
Your already setup
cases feed slightly better.
no need to fireform cases.

Now with the AI one of the biggest perks is the sharp shoulder virtually eliminates the need to trim necks.
You gain some case capacity
Fireforming loads are often plenty accurate but you do have to form cases and buy a new die or you could do the poor mans .223AI which is to just buy a lee .223 collet die and you shoot the AI'd brass till it needs a shoulder bump then either throw it in a box for if/when you feel like buying a FL or bump die or since .223 brass is so abundant you just run another batch and fireform away and repeat.

Now one thing I will say is neither is going to help you a great deal unless it has a 1:8-1:7 twist.

Where you really gain performance is by running heavy for caliber bullet seated long (2.45+) It really brings the lowly .223 into the ring. You can put up a damn good fight against .308's with 90-95gr bullets in a generously throated 1:6-1:6.5" long barrel.

As for the .223 wylde it is my favorite for the AR. The chamber dimensions for .223, .223 wylde and 5.56 vary very little. Where the major differences lie is the freebore, the throat diameter/length and leade angle. Think of it as an expansion chamber before the bullet seals the bore. The extra volume is effectively like adding case capacity. there is more space for expansion so average pressure will be lower.

 

[Harrier]

Thanks for that reply...
My rifle is 1:12 unfortunately. I'm surprised it shoots the 60gr V-Max as well as it does. Case trimming is always a time consuming operation for me. I tend to go short and let them grow a little then they seem to stop.

I too prefer Wylde and the AI thought came about as an alternative... as a thought to get expanded case capacity & reduced pressure.... which is the point of my quest.

As I mentioned, I often test loads then try to pick the load that is accurate-then batch load for general use. Often times I try to ballpark OEM velocity for general practice... The problem comes when the load pressure gets overly hot in .223 while still fine for 5.56.

I've found this only to be an issue in 223 chambers... I really don't like to see Top-hats or very-flat primers filling the pocket with raised craters... so i was thinking of throating as a solution - and I wondered if just converting to a wylde chamber the easiest way...

 

[Squirrel_Slayer]

gotcha on the 1 load fits most.

Being that it is a 1:12 I wouldn't do much in the way of throating unless you seldom shoot lite bullets in it (ie. 40gr-52gr) Reason being is those bullets don't have much bearing surface and you will be either creating more jump for them which may effect accuracy and you will run out of bullet shank to reach the lands.

Reamers are pretty sharp. You could dye-kem the chamber and use the weight of the reamer/t-handle and turn it a few times, wipe chips, inspect, and keep doing such till you just see the shoulder scratches in the dye then stop, clean out chips, verify that the throat was cut (ie. shiny metal where dye is no longer present)

 

[TheAccountant]

I can promise you that your chamber in your factory barrel was not held to .0003 and even if it was you would never notice any difference from a .0003 move in the shoulder. You can get to the dimensions you want by throating it. Whether that solves your problem or not, who knows. There are several reasons you could be seeing pressure in one rifle and not the other.

 

[Harrier]

I guess I will just live with it as the 50-53gr are like lasers in that gun and I don't want to mess with that... The 60gr Vmax is a nice varmint bullet and approximates other popular bullets that cost a lot more.

24.6gr of TAC will work... The velocities are nothing to get excited about...