Ramp or no ramp? 80% 1911 question

[brian10x]

First, before my question, some background.
I've build several different 80% receivers. I've done the 10/22, the (so easy a caveman could do it) Polymer80 Spectre, a ton of ARs, and an UZI. That was hard.

So I know a little. Just enough to be dangerous around hand tools.

I'm going to build an 80% 1911. I've taken apart and put back together 1911s for 30 years, haven't blown myself up....yet.

They sell ramped and non-ramped frames and barrels. I take it if I am buying a ramped frame, I need to buy a ramped barrel?

But, and here's the big question, should I buy ramped or non-ramped? Doesn't a 1911 feed just fine without a ramp? Or am I delirious?

Please, for John Moses Browning, and all that is holy, keep me from hurting myself.

 

[Suck My Glock]

Yes, and no. Depends on the caliber you are going to chamber it for.

In .45acp,...the "cut barrel" method as found on the pistols Nelson Ford does his magic to, is quite reliable and when done by a master like Nels, doesn't weaken the support of the cartridge enough to endanger anything when used within normal pressure loads. .45acp operates at relatively low PSI, so this is why.

However,...if you plan to run a hot cartridge,...such as 10mm or 9x23 or .38SuperComp,...a fully supported case is important. And the best feeding method to get ammo into a fully supported chamber in a 1911 is a ramped barrel.

 

[brian10x]

I'm building a 45ACP, as God and JMB intended.

This is the frame I ordered. Looks like its made for a regular, unramped barrel?

http://www.jemguns.com/80-Government-45-Stainless-Steel_p_54.html

 

[brian10x]

"45 ACP Ramp and Barrel Bed"

Whatever that means.

 

[Suck My Glock]

Looks like it.

 

[shooter444]

Yes, and no. Depends on the caliber you are going to chamber it for.

In .45acp,...the "cut barrel" method as found on the pistols Nelson Ford does his magic to, is quite reliable and when done by a master like Nels, doesn't weaken the support of the cartridge enough to endanger anything when used within normal pressure loads. .45acp operates at relatively low PSI, so this is why.

However,...if you plan to run a hot cartridge,...such as 10mm or 9x23 or .38SuperComp,...a fully supported case is important. And the best feeding method to get ammo into a fully supported chamber in a 1911 is a ramped barrel.

This ^,... and I would include 45+P and 45 Super to the above hot cartridges.


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[brian10x]

What I don't understand, is that if I buy a ramped barrel, can I use it in a standard frame, and if I can, does the frame have to be modified?

 

[Suck My Glock]

What I don't understand, is that if I buy a ramped barrel, can I use it in a standard frame, and if I can, does the frame have to be modified?

The first ramped barrels for 1911s were an entirely custom affair, and yes, the steel frames had to be custom cut to fit the new style of barrel. (Alloy frames are weakened too much by the cutting, so they MUST remain as standard Colt-style affairs.) There are a few different types of cut that may be needed, depending on the barrel you select. Wilson and Nolan went with one style of ramp cut dimension, while Clark and Para-Ordnance went with another. Later on, the Para/Clark style was modified by a gunsmith named Lissner and some have gone with that dimension.

Many 80% frame suppliers today have a ramp-cut product available already that is pre-cut to fit a ramped barrel. The most common style of cut for ramped barrels in kit form is by far the Para/Clark style, by a ratio of about 90%.

 

[brian10x]

Thank you SO MUCH for such a detailed answer. As far as I know, the frame I bought is not cut for a ramped barrel, and I'm not cutting one. So, I'll buy a non-ramped barrel, and all will be good in the world!

 

[brian10x]

The plot thickens!
I just got my invoice for the frame:
1911 FRAME - 80%
GOVERNMENT
STAINLESS STEEL
45 ACP RAMP CUT
BARE FRONT STRAP

Ok, so the frame is cut for a ramped barrel. Now the question is, do I have to use a ramped barrel? SHOULD I use a ramped barrel? Do I have the option?

 

[Suck My Glock]

I'm not a gunsmith, but I'm fairly sure that while you might get a regular barrel to fit,...the missing area of the frame that is cut away is what would have formed the lower feed ramp area. So ammo will not feed. Yes,...you will HAVE to use a ramped barrel.

 

[brian10x]

Makes sense, but I thought it better to ask! Glad I didn't buy a barrel yet!

On a similar subject, compared to 80% Glocks and AR15s,DAMMIT TO HELL! these fricken parts are expensive! SHHEEEET, $500.00 for a stainless parts kit? (Minus barrel, frame, slide)

:angry-screaming:

 

[sonofbp]

Feel like cutting a frame for a ramped barrel? lol
I've got an old llama max I picked up for practically nothing because someone went full babnanas on the feed area and it channels the round right below the non ramped barrel and directly into the frame. :doh:

So, I picked up a ramped barrel for it but no longer have access to a mill and dont feel like taking after it with a dremel.

 

[Gunrunnerx]

I stick with non-ramped for .45 and ramped for 9mm using the clark/para profile.

Caveat to that is that I do open up the mouth of the chamber with a dremel on the .45. I find I like the feed better when I do that.

 

[baby huey]

I'm not a gunsmith, but I'm fairly sure that while you might get a regular barrel to fit,...the missing area of the frame that is cut away is what would have formed the lower feed ramp area. So ammo will not feed. Yes,...you will HAVE to use a ramped barrel.

Absolutely this. Ramped barrels are for high pressure rounds. On 1911 the feed ramp is part of the frame, when a smith would polish the feed ramp, they were hitting the area of the frame under the barrel.

 

[baby huey]

Tried to show a pic. Turned out like crap but that is a professional job and that 1911 runs great

 

[Gunrunnerx]

I'm not a gunsmith, but I'm fairly sure that while you might get a regular barrel to fit,...the missing area of the frame that is cut away is what would have formed the lower feed ramp area. So ammo will not feed. Yes,...you will HAVE to use a ramped barrel.

Absolutely this. Ramped barrels are for high pressure rounds. On 1911 the feed ramp is part of the frame, when a smith would polish the feed ramp, they were hitting the area of the frame under the barrel.

Exactly. This is why I open the throat on mine. Basically matching the angles of the frame ramp.

Over the years I went to ramps on the 9 cause I could control feed from crappy mags better. Mags have gotten better over the years though.

 

[brian10x]

Got it figured out.