Quickie 45acp pistol Silencer question,... load update

[shooter444]

Thought I would put this up top, to make it easier to access,...

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OK,... UPDATE!!! As promised.

I found some Enforcer Powder, got some Star Line 45 Super brass, and some CCI Pistol Magnum Primers.

Load data for Enforcer Powder for 45acp w/230gr bullets is ,...
12.9gr-947FPS-17,003PSI
13.7gr-996FPS-17,663PSI
14.5br-1,060FPS-19,393PSI

I started with the minimum load, and got immediate positive function results!! In fact, it shot like a laser, dead on my red dot setting with no adjustment needed.

This is a VERY STOUT LOADING,... I immediately started loading down .3ths of a grain at a time. I got larger groups and wider brass ejection patterns the less I loaded. At 12 grains I got a fail to go into battery, so I went back to the recommended minimum data (12.9 grains) and immediately got laser results at 25 yards and tight brass pattern at 3:O-CLOCK with three foot ejection distance.

My concern now is at this loading,( what I would cal +P load ), I may be battering the slide more than I normally like with the factory captured recoil spring,.... so, now I will search and find the best recoil spring power range for this loading and use the Wolff full length guide rod I bought last week to see if I like a heavier spring, better, at this loading, in this pistol.

Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated!
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ORIGINAL POST,...


Just a Quickie, here it is,... has anyone had to change the strength of the recoil spring, when installing a silencer,... as in, stronger, or, weaker spring?

edit,... SORRY,... I am talking about 45 acp semi-auto pistol!

thanks

 

[DuneShoot]

If you're talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 style rifle sometimes a heavier buffer is needed for reliability.

I used a 'slash heavy buffer' for a short time on a 308 AR.

 

[superdrag67]

For pistols I've never had to change anything for reliability. If you are trying to maximize suppression then it's something you could play with.

For AR15 style rifles I usually put an adjustable gas block on them even though they function without it. Just trying to cut down on gas in the face.

 

[QuietM4]

Depends on the pistol mechanics. Didn’t have to change anything for a Glock 21, but i had to change to a lighter spring for my 1911.

 

[shooter444]

Good Morn'n Gentlemen! And thanks for the replies!

I didn't have a lot of time when I originally posted,.... so, let me expand on what my situation is.

I decided to play around with my favorite pistol, a S&W M&P45 full size. I decided I wanted to see if I could direct muzzle blast/sound, reduce some recoil with added barrel weight,... by loading some very slow plated bullets, for all the previous goals.

In other words, I am not dealing with an actual "silencer",... it is actually a barrel extension. It is 5" long, diameter much like a silencer, and, it definitely has the weight of a silencer,... in fact, it may weigh more!

Experimenting, I found that with stock recoil spring and factory ammo, all functioned well.

But, when I tried my targeted, slower, hand rolled ammo,... failure to eject was rampant!!!

So, I started LOADING UP! Only to find reliable function at a load point way above recommended data!

Obviously, my basic problem is that the recoil level was insufficient (unless I am wrong),... which led me to believe that the increased/added muzzle weight, from the barrel extension, was slowing the slide enough to cause ejection failure.

So after investing in a threaded barrel and the extension, I decided,... in for a penny-in for a pound,... and converted over to the Wolff non-captured recoil spring and guide rod,... with a lighter 14# spring. Thinking the lighter 14# spring would have less resistance and allow proper cycling!

Which failed as well!

So I started cutting the spring down, but, before I could get light enough resistance for a dependable cycling,... I wound up with too little resistance, and failure to go into battery!

So, thinking I must has concluded incorrectly, I posted here to see if someone with "silencer" experience may have dealt with such a problem with extra slow subsonic ammo.

QUESTIONS???

 

[AZDESERTRAT]

Suppressors have a spring loaded attachment (recoil booster) that allows the gun a split second to unlock and start to cycle before the true weight of the suppressor is felt on the barrel. I doubt any browning type actions would work reliably at all without one on a can. Fixed barrel pistols like a ppk don’t require a booster.
Not sure if that helps or not.

 

[shooter444]

Suppressors have a spring loaded attachment (recoil booster) that allows the gun a split second to unlock and start to cycle before the true weight of the suppressor is felt on the barrel. I doubt any browning type actions would work reliably at all without one on a can. Fixed barrel pistols like a ppk don’t require a booster.
Not sure if that helps or not.

ARE YOU KIDDING!!! That is fantastic, I had no idea such a "recoil booster" even existed!!! Definitely something to investigate,... thank you!!!

 

[shooter444]

Well, after a frantic web search, I finally found a EXTERNAL BOOSTER, since the barrel extension cannot have a normal booster threaded into it.

Well, besides the added cost, I have read enough to understand that a "RECOIL BOOSTER" does exactly what it is called,... BOOSTS RECOIL,.... which is counter productive to my quest.

So, I guess I'll just have to give up on extra slow subsonic loads, and, try and develop some high velocity, light weight, 45 acp bullet loads, with more recoil.

 

[QuietM4]

Sounds like after all this money you've invested into different parts and adapters, you could have just built a Form 1 suppressor...

 

[shooter444]

Not really,...

$130,... silencerco stainless threaded barrel
$60,... usmachinegun barrel extension
$30,... wolff spring and guide rod replacement

total,... $220

Hardly the cost of a stamped silencer,... and,... without months of waiting, too boot!!!

 

[QuietM4]

Form 1 suppressors are being approved in less than a month, currently. You can build a home made suppressor for less than $300. Then you can have something that is available for multiple platforms, and doesn't require specially made ammo.

But, if it makes you happy, have fun.

 

[shooter444]

I thank you for your bias opinion,... but, I think we both know that 30 days is pie in the ski, and, $300 for a hand made, is a guesstimate,... and then of course there is $200 for the Uncle Sam stamp. Not to mention the probability of a few other costs, I am clueless about.

So, if you don't mind, I'll pass on the blue smoke.

 

[XJThrottle]

I've had two eForm1s returned in under two weeks. Click to enlarge. You'll have $200 in the stamp, but the rest depends on your skills and available machinery. Simple kits that you basically just drill are a couple hundred bucks.

Just an example I found online.
http://www.quietbore.com/#!/Solvent-Traps/c/22034117/offset=0&sort=normal

 

[shooter444]

Well, with no available machinery, that really isn't an option.

Don't forget the recoil booster,... they don't give them away!

 

[XJThrottle]

I'm aware. In for a few.

This is my current stamp wait times list.

 

[shooter444]

Hmmm,.... XJThrottle, would that be more than two weeks? :confusion-questionmarks:

 

[XJThrottle]

The top four are all form 4s. The bottom one was done during the shut down. I will probably see it this week.

That was just an example of me being aware of the cost (time and money) of a silencer game.

I'll get my tubes engraved for two Form 1s this week. Should have them all done and ready to shoot by this time next month. Well ahead of the others.

I'm just giving you examples of how NOT to wait a year. Do what you like...

 

[shooter444]

Thanks,.... but, no one mentioned anything about a year wait.

 

[shooter444]

Well, if anyone is interested, I have decided to load for function.

By that I mean, I ordered some 45-Super brass, and will (hopefully) pick up a pound (for experimenting) of Ramshot Enforcer powder. Enforcer is my powder of choice because it can get the speed I want with a 230 grain bullet (close to 1,000 FPS), with pressure (19,000 PSI) which is a couple thousand PSI below normal 45 acp pressures ( 21,000 PSI), ... if memory serves me.

Thanks to all, for all the input! I'll resurrect this post with an update, when I finish loading.

 

[Steve_In_29]

At this point what are you trying to accomplish? Based on what you posted it seems all you now have is a longer, heavier pistol shooting near max loads to function.

Longer barrel doesn't make a round quieter, it simply moves the noise a bit further from the shooter's ears. Others around (or in front of) you still hear the same report.

You have also simply discovered the well known fact that adding mass to a semi-auto pistol interferes with its proper functioning.

Unless what you posted was just French for, "I built my own silencer".