poll,... on weapon sales

[Flash]

You can say the guy showed you an Arizona DL whether he did or not. No way the cops can prove it one way or the other.

Unless the guy your doing the deal with is some branch of LE.
Paranoid? Could be but America has gotten wierd.

And if the guy is LE, he's not a prohibited possessor so it doesn't matter if I checked or not, does it?

The law doesn't require you to check if he's a prohibited possessor, you just can't knowingly sell to a prohibited possessor.

So essentially for you to get busted, the guy would have to tell you he's a prohibited possessor and you sell to him anyway.

 

[shooter444]

Well, this poll is turning out to be more real than I expected! :clap:

Obviously, it is well understood that asking a criminal to honestly answer a question, is a fools folly!

Personally, I would really like to hear from board members who include such requirement in their sales ads,... as to where they got such a notion, and what results they truly expected from asking such a naive question.

I'd like to expand this thread, to include the silliness that other sellers practice, by asking for written documents in a sale,... supposedly to have a paper trail if a legal investigation comes their way, do to a bad sale. And again, just as this poll proves, no one expects criminals to answer a question honestly,... hence,... why would anyone believe a criminal will use a real ID, or, sign a paper with their real name!!!

Ahhh, but, that has been pretty much beaten to death in the past,... and should probably be another poll,... someday! :hand:

I would like to leave this thread suggesting one possible conclusion,... we, as weapon sellers, seem to have nourished a string of mind sets to alleviate some concerns for self preservation in this litigious society. Well, call me crazy, but, I don't believe any of these self gratifying exercises in preventing legal jeopardy are valid! I don't believe any of these mind sets/practices will prevent the inevitable results if the law comes knocking over a sale gone bad,... for any reason,... I.e.,... a sale to a prohibited possessor, a sale to a non-resident, a sale of a stolen weapon, a sale of a weapon previously used in a crime, a sale of a weapon used in a current crime etc., etc.!!!

I believe, if I sell to a prohibited possessor,... I will be charged,... no matter how high the stack of signed papers I possess , or, how many times the buyer answer my questions in the affirmative! And with that belief, I feel confident by responding in such a legal matter, in a manner as should be recommended to all suspects, in such legal investigations,...I will keep my mouth shut,...and I will not have a paper trail of any transaction,...I will not have a list of asked questions I think will exonerate me,... in any investigation,...of anything!

 

[Boriqua]

And if the guy is LE, he's not a prohibited possessor so it doesn't matter if I checked or not, does it?

The law doesn't require you to check if he's a prohibited possessor, you just can't knowingly sell to a prohibited possessor.

I was actually referring to residency verification Flash and should have quoted the post but .. even in the case of selling to a felon here is my concern

Not to sound to alarmist or just plain tin foil hat weird... If the Dems cant push through Universal background checks that they may use federal or local LE in a more aggressive way to make going through an FFL more appealing.

They might hide it under some clever name like "The initiative for child safety" or "The Good guy compliance division" ... The LE I referenced would be an undercover and looking to trip you up.

After a couple of arrests for selling a 30 yr old rattle bucket 1911 blasted on the front page of liberal media ... selling your gun in a parking lot may soon feel more risky then it is now.

If you watch videos of some traffic stops .. its not that hard to trip someone up with leading questions and a conversational tone.

ok .. maybe I have to fashion a tin foil hat

 

[Boriqua]

I would like to leave this thread suggesting one conclusive thought,... we, as weapon sellers, seem to have nourished a string of mind sets to alleviate some concerns for self preservation in this litigious society. Well, call me crazy, but, I don't believe any of these self gratifying exercises in preventing legal jeopardy are valid! I don't believe any of these mind sets/practices will prevent the inevitable results if the law comes knocking over a sale gone bad,

This is untrue. I purchased a gun from a dealer (ffl) that used to participate on the old board. Great guy and great service. I had the gun maybe two months and had sold off the gun. Wasnt a good fit nothing more.

I received a phone call from the dealer some time later saying he had received a fed check on the gun. I think he referred to it as something else but it was long ago and I dont remember the correct terminology. Basically .. it would seem the gun had been involved in some illegal activity which could have simply been it was found in the possession of a felon .. or ??

With a requirement to see an AZDL you are certainly not protected from all fraud but .. its not the easiest thing in the world to copy a DL and your general meth mutt is not going to have the technology or resources. I was armed with my hand written receipt with a signature and a name and a date.

I also had the Phone number and the email we used to communicate. Turns out in the short time the gun had been sold by him to someone else and the person who was in possession of it might have been the forth owner.

I wont get into the tired ass old thread of whether you should ask for or agree to a paper trail. I will reiterate .. its my stuff .. if the terms of sale are not to your liking DONT BUY IT!

If I have a truly awesome 629 with an outstanding provenance and decide to sell it for $200 but the terms are that you have to be willing to sing the first 5 lines to some Taylor swift song ... Its my stuff my rules and you can consider for yourself if the research and singing is worth it to you.

I love guys who act as street corner preachers on the liberties that are inalienable rights and the freedoms we should embrace .. right up until they dont agree with my freedom of choice to sell my items any fugin way I wish.

Luckily for me .. my last few sales have been to board members I know and trust and knew a receipt wasnt necessary. I am happy with my current little collection

 

[YNOTAZ]

I love it. He can't see my vote soo he can't bytch about it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There ya go now he can see it. LOL.

Mike you made the snowflake's list Congrats! :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[shooter444]

I would like to leave this thread suggesting one conclusive thought,... we, as weapon sellers, seem to have nourished a string of mind sets to alleviate some concerns for self preservation in this litigious society. Well, call me crazy, but, I don't believe any of these self gratifying exercises in preventing legal jeopardy are valid! I don't believe any of these mind sets/practices will prevent the inevitable results if the law comes knocking over a sale gone bad,

This is untrue. I purchased a gun from a dealer (ffl) that used to participate on the old board. Great guy and great service. I had the gun maybe two months and had sold off the gun. Wasnt a good fit nothing more.

First off, "my belief" is not untrue! It may differ from an experience you had,... but, that doesn't make my belief, untrue.


I received a phone call from the dealer some time later saying he had received a fed check on the gun. I think he referred to it as something else but it was long ago and I dont remember the correct terminology. Basically .. it would seem the gun had been involved in some illegal activity which could have simply been it was found in the possession of a felon .. or ??

With a requirement to see an AZDL you are certainly not protected from all fraud but .. its not the easiest thing in the world to copy a DL and your general meth mutt is not going to have the technology or resources. I was armed with my hand written receipt with a signature and a name and a date.

If you back track a bit, you will see my post of a, copied & pasted quote, offering the possibility that Flash's post, that we don't have to ask about residency, may not be quite right! I agree with you that a AZ DL/residency, is a requirement,... but, I don't include that with all the other hoops to be jumped through, demanded by sellers.


I also had the Phone number and the email we used to communicate. Turns out in the short time the gun had been sold by him to someone else and the person who was in possession of it might have been the forth owner.

I wont get into the tired ass old thread of whether you should ask for or agree to a paper trail. I will reiterate .. its my stuff .. if the terms of sale are not to your liking DONT BUY IT!

If I have a truly awesome 629 with an outstanding provenance and decide to sell it for $200 but the terms are that you have to be willing to sing the first 5 lines to some Taylor swift song ... Its my stuff my rules and you can consider for yourself if the research and singing is worth it to you.


OK,... and if I sign your Bill of Sale, as, MICKEY MOUSE with a Az DL verifying it,... will that be a problem ?

I love guys who act as street corner preachers on the liberties that are inalienable rights and the freedoms we should embrace .. right up until they dont agree with my freedom of choice to sell my items any fugin way I wish.

Hmmm, really,... may I offer this for your consideration,... expressing disagreement with your choice/s,... is just as much an example of exercising an Inalienable Right, as your freedom of sale/s choice/s are examples of your Inalienable Rights ! In other words,...expressing a different point of view, from yours, is not an infringement on your Inalienable Rights !!!

Now, maybe you you should reconsider climbing up on your soap box, again,... preaching about a violation of your Inalienable Rights, that never happened!!!

 

[Boriqua]

If you sign Mikey Mouse and your DL says Mikey mouse .. yes .. I am completely satisfied. Names are getting more and more creative .. the possibility, while remote, is real?!

 

[QuietM4]

Every time I see a post from Shooter444 IN ALL CAPS OR ALL BOLD, all I can picture in my head is this;

 

[Elk34]

All I picture is this

 

[shooter444]

If you sign Mikey Mouse and your DL says Mikey mouse .. yes .. I am completely satisfied. Names are getting more and more creative .. the possibility, while remote, is real?!

Hmmm, well, and exactly how would you present a defense of such a Bill of Sale to a judge,... IF you were ever brought before a judge, to defend such a document?

No need to answer,... that was a sarcastic and rhetorical question.

But, if it ever were to happen,... please, do send me an invite, that is something I would really like to witness.

 

[omegaman]

 

[omegaman]

:lol:

 

[shooter444]

Seems like some members have over action imaginations.

I use bold print to bring attention to a reply, that I insert, in a post I am answering, so, the reader can distinguish my reply, from the original poster's writings. If that is to shocking for some,... please do enlighten me on how I should deal with this dilemma, so as to be more soothing to your safe space.

Or, you could just pass it on by!

 

[Elk34]

Don't change anything. Be yourself. If you change then they win.

 

[shooter444]

Don't change anything. Be yourself. If you change then they win.

Thanks, but, no need for concern. Asking for a suggestion isn't the same as accepting, or, acting upon a suggestion. And, there won't be a suggestion offered, because they don't have one! They are only interested in stirring the crap pot,... not solving anything.

Thanks, again.

 

[Crippledtrigger]

Seems like some members have over action imaginations.

I use bold print to bring attention to a reply, that I insert, in a post I am answering, so, the reader can distinguish my reply, from the original poster's writings. If that is to shocking for some,... please do enlighten me on how I should deal with this dilemma,

like this

so as to be more soothing to your safe space.

Or, you could just pass it on by!

See above. Simply insert [/quote] before your comment then then the same thing with out the forward slash after your comment to start the quote box back up. Not much more difficult than the bold text command you're using.

 

[admin]

I wonder how many 4473's shooter444 has filled out himself for firearm purchases. Based on the positions he's espoused in this thread, I'd hope his response would be "zero".

 

[shooter444]

I wonder how many 4473's shooter444 has filled out himself for firearm purchases. Based on the positions he's espoused in this thread, [highlight=yellow]I'd hope his response would be "zero"[/highlight].

I'm sorry, above is a little confusing.
Are you asking the board, or me?
And why would you say that?

 

[admin]

I wonder how many 4473's shooter444 has filled out himself for firearm purchases. Based on the positions he's espoused in this thread, [highlight=yellow]I'd hope his response would be "zero"[/highlight].

I'm sorry, above is a little confusing.
Are you asking the board, or me?
And why would you say that?

Kinda rhetorically asking you. Here's what you said verbatim, in this thread, previously:

The 4473 form is a backdoor infringement on the 2nd amendment and our Creator Endowed Inalienable Human Right to ,...LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS! It is nothing less than REGISTRATION leading, eventually, to CONFISCATION.

What possible reasoning do you have for letting that tyrannical One World Government sponsored Demonscat infringement,... creep into the Free State of Arizona, gun laws?"

So someone who espouses that position on such an infringement, I'd imagine that they would not voluntarily submit themselves to filling out a 4473.

 

[Flash]

If you watch videos of some traffic stops .. its not that hard to trip someone up with leading questions and a conversational tone.

ok .. maybe I have to fashion a tin foil hat

Yeah, it's called verbal judo and it works very well against people who aren't aware of what it is and where the conversation is going.

IIRC, they teach that at the Academy.