Permission to view classifieds

[deadshot556]

I have thousands of excellent posts on other shooter sites. I know a hundred quality Arizonans on those sites as friends that I never see here. I keep trying.

Each time I come here, in comparison, I see very little new content of interest. So I don't come here much.
The admin/owner has decided on fewer of what he considers quality members than folks who don't contribute as much as he would like.
It's his choice. He pays for it and runs it the way he thinks best.
If you don't like it, go somewhere else; I still drop by because I'm from AZ and still try to contribute and keep it alive. I don't want it to die like the last one.
I offer this post to that end.

The new commitment to stop "gaming" of the system seems futile. The users didn't set up the rules of the game. If you want to stop "gaming"; don't make it a game to get through.

I get kinda a feeling of elitism; but I know I get insulted easily. Only the worthy gets to fully share?
I don't think that's what was intended at all by the admin !!!
I think that's just the way it worked out. Unintended consequences.

The admin seems intent on running a good site. I just believe he made an error in determining electronic games would Just keep the riffraff out. Some rules keep the good out as well as the bad.

I hope you accept this post the way it was intended.
Prescut

Nailed it

 

[admin]

You seem to think that opening the classifieds brings "more quality members". No, it doesn't. It brings more traffic, but traffic that's very narrow and limited in scope. With rare exceptions, that additional traffic only comes to visit the classifieds; those users don't visit other portions of the site and don't provide content outside of "is it still available?" Can you be a "quality member" and not contribute? Sure, I guess - but how does it benefit the site if "quality members" are around but don't post, share knowledge and contribute? It doesn't.

As far as this site dying "like the last one". Apples and oranges as I see it. First off, this site is new.
Growth here has been all organic; only advertising by word of mouth. The old site AZS.com - was on the up-and-up and doing very well when I sold it off due to my time constraints. The new owners took it in a new direction shortly thereafter and neglected to maintain it properly (no updates to the software, code, etc) and apparently didn't take backups or didn't verify they worked. When it became the wild west 'anything goes', a lot of members decided that the junk/fighting/arguments on there wasn't worth wading through to find real discussions and stopped going or went elsewhere - even I was one of those who largely left the site. Even so, I don't think traffic or patronage was ever an issue on the site until they lost all the data and it went away.

You guys complaining and 'providing observations' are certainly welcome to start your own site that provides classified ads; nothing's stopping you. Despite mentioning it again and again and again and again, people still seem to think that this site exists for the purposes of buying and selling firearms, as if that was some focus of the site. It isn't. It wasn't. It never has been. It never will be. That has always been an added benefit for those who are a participatory part of the AZS community.

 

[backcountry]

I never stated anything that said I thought opening classifieds would bring quality members.
New quality members are brought my quality posts.

So you wrote software to monitor posts for quality/quantity to stop poor members from seeing classifieds.

Instead, why not write software to monitor members for those who only go to the classifieds, as you stated.
Pull their memberships.

I also object to gun control rules that sweep up the good guys in the net when they should only be written to catch and punish the bad guys. Rules should only target the intended.


I have no idea what I'm missing. After two years on this site, I think last week was the first time I ever tried to look. Do I really care about arizonashooting's classifieds. Obviously not if I've never tried to got there.

These two posts are about a policy that is possibly not helpful to the community.
AZ1182 nice post. I don't think I rate a better way to give kudos, yet.


Prescut
I just followed the links below to the posts from quality members on the classifieds. There appears to be more than one problem. The game is on and is encouraged. STOP the game !

 

[knockonit]

move on , no one will miss you, don't like it delete account, and move on,
bye.........................

 

[paulgt2164]

Each time I come here, in comparison, I see very little new content of interest. So I don't come here much.

So then why the issue with the requirements to have classified access? You said yourself "low content of interest" - so why bother arguing your perspective on something you apparently have little interest in?

The admin/owner has decided on fewer of what he considers quality members than folks who don't contribute as much as he would like.

This is a smart way of running a community like this one. Notice I said "community." The issue with the "old site" was too many people who wanted to do nothing but troll / argue / etc joined up. That is what kills places like this. If 80% of the activity is nothing but crap-posting then all the people worth having will leave. This scenario has played out on 100s of forums. I fought the same battle as the admin of a hugely popular automotive forum.

I still drop by because I'm from AZ and still try to contribute and keep it alive. I don't want it to die like the last one.

Then the whole contributing by posting for classified access apparently won't apply to you. If you contribute and want the forum to survive then you are the "right" kind of poster.....

The new commitment to stop "gaming" of the system seems futile. The users didn't set up the rules of the game. If you want to stop "gaming"; don't make it a game to get through.

I don't see why you use the term "game." It isn't a contest to contribute. He is just asking people to contribute. That is all. There aren't any hoops. He already stated multiple times that people just crap-posting for post count won't be allowed access. The forum I ran, had the same requirement. People would always try to crap-post with replying "cool" or "ok" to meet the requirements but that would just result in a ban.

I get kinda a feeling of elitism; but I know I get insulted easily. Only the worthy gets to fully share?
I don't think that's what was intended at all by the admin !!!
I think that's just the way it worked out. Unintended consequences.

Elitism? He is just trying to keep the place from dying off. There is no elitism in asking people to contribute to get the classifieds. Admin has put forth the time, effort, and money to get this place running/operating - so I don't think asking people to contribute via posting is an unfair trade.

The admin seems intent on running a good site. I just believe he made an error in determining electronic games would Just keep the riffraff out. Some rules keep the good out as well as the bad.

Again with the "game." There is no game. You either contribute with your good posts, or you don't get access. Plain and simple. How is that keeping the "good" out? You may be a great human being, and a 2a supporter - but if all you do is use this service to peruse the classifieds - how does that make you "good" for the forum/community?

So you wrote software to monitor posts for quality/quantity to stop poor members from seeing classifieds.

Instead, why not write software to monitor members for those who only go to the classifieds, as you stated.

You don't understand how this works. And I fail to see the differentiation between your two thoughts there. I think you are confusing access to the classified with access to the whole forum?

I also object to gun control rules that sweep up the good guys in the net when they should only be written to catch and punish the bad guys. Rules should only target the intended.

It is pretty easy to see who contributes here by their posts. The admin is looking for people who contribute, then give them classified access. I don't see how the "net" would filter out "good" members as good members=contributors. Not much "grey" area there. Either you contribute , or you don't. This rule does target the intended.

I have no idea what I'm missing. After two years on this site, I think last week was the first time I ever tried to look. Do I really care about arizonashooting's classifieds. Obviously not if I've never tried to got there.

No one else does either. You keep saying you don't care about the classifieds yet you are harping on about the simple and easy requirement to get classified access. You keep saying "game" and acting like the simple rules will keep "good" people out - yet the requirement is absurdly simple. Contribute via posting and you can see the classifieds. I don't understand how this concept is so hard to grasp.


Seriously, what is so hard about this?

It is like having a weekly BBQ at your house so everyone can be around and converse with like minded folk. You invite everyone, and you supply the food. You then notice there are people who socialize, clean up after themselves, and engage the other guests in conversation and a good time. Then there are a few people that just show up, eat the food, talk to no one, and leave. Who are you going to want back?


The people saying "they don't have time or nothing to talk about" is just B.S. I work two jobs, have a ton of stuff I am usually doing, yet I can still get on here for a few minutes every once in a while and talk about something. It isn't hard. Some of y'all are acting like the admin is asking you to write novels or figure out the meaning of life, when in reality you just want to show up, eat the free food, and leave.....
The people saying "they don't have time or nothing to talk about" is just B.S. I work two jobs, have a ton of stuff I am usually doing, yet I can still get on here for a few minutes every once in a while and talk about something. It isn't hard. Some of y'all are acting like the admin is asking you to write novels or figure out the meaning of life just becaus

 

[admin]

It is like having a weekly BBQ at your house so everyone can be around and converse with like minded folk. You invite everyone, and you supply the food. You then notice there are people who socialize, clean up after themselves, and engage the other guests in conversation and a good time. Then there are a few people that just show up, eat the food, talk to no one, and leave. Who are you going to want back?

:handgestures-thumbupleft:

I think that's a pretty good analogy. The only thing I could add to that is that everyone's welcome at the 'BBQ', we just ask those who come to bring a few side-dishes to share.

 

[electrohawk]

Well aint this a hoot.

 

[Tenring]

BBQ .. I'll bring beer ..... looks like some others got the whine covered.

 

[curt1950]

I'm a quiet type of guy, if there is a post and 20 others post about the same thing that I would I just don't bother. just that keeps my post count down and I can't access the for sale section. I do give a little money every month to help maintain the site, just common curtesy I feel. I still don't have access but his site his rules. There is other places to spend my money.

 

[AZ_Five56]

I'm a quiet type of guy, if there is a post and 20 others post about the same thing that I would I just don't bother. just that keeps my post count down and I can't access the for sale section. I do give a little money every month to help maintain the site, just common curtesy I feel. I still don't have access but his site his rules. There is other places to spend my money.

You should have access if you're a site supporter. If not, I would suggest messaging admin to help fix that.

Agreed. I feel good about chipping in a few bucks a month for what I get out of the site.

 

[Limper]

I'm a quiet type of guy, if there is a post and 20 others post about the same thing that I would I just don't bother. just that keeps my post count down and I can't access the for sale section. I do give a little money every month to help maintain the site, just common curtesy I feel. I still don't have access but his site his rules. There is other places to spend my money.

I am pretty much the same. I have posted a few times this month but as you can see by my post count (now up by one) that that is unusual frequency of posting. Site supporters do get access to the classifieds but for some reason the algorithm doesn't like me and drops my access regularly. I PM admin and he promptly fixes it. For his sake (mental health) I hope he figures out what the bug is because it has to be an annoying waste of his time.

I likely will never be a frequent poster, and I do want access to the classifieds to be able to view them to have a mechanism to sell something to the local community. However, the primary reason I am a site supporter is what the name says. Based on the few times I have bought or sold using the classifieds from the site it would be a financially dumb thing to do purely to gain access to them.

 

[AZ_Five56]

...for some reason the algorithm doesn't like me and drops my access regularly.

I was having that problem non stop. I cleared all my cookies and cache completely and it didn't work. I tried different browsers with no success. It did end up getting resolved, but I don't know by what exactly. At the same time, I started getting automatically logged of on the site with great frequency, and when I logged back in I didn't have access to the classifieds again. Hopefully you get it figured out soon.

 

[goodaim]

site is great and totally understand the close knit community idea. It is for local guys that like to shoot, talk, and buy locally in AZ. I love it.

 

[freefly]

This whole having access to classifieds, then not, then having them again, then not, then having them again, then not is getting old.

I'm not here to just buy and sell. Actually, I haven't bought or sold anything, but I like to look and see. Maybe something will catch my eye. I just like to browse.

Why does access keep going in and out constantly?

Yeah, regardless of what your opinion is on restricted vs. non-restricted access to the classifieds, the current all-or-nothing and "in today, out tomorrow" (floating / algorithm-based) permission model is not well thought out at all, IMO.

Neither is the fact that it excludes anyone who is not "approved" from even viewing or replying to classified ads. In other words, it is still punitive to those who are "approved" as it severely limits the number of people who can see their listings.

A better method (again, IMO) would be to let ALL members view the classifieds section, and even reply to ads there, but restrict the posting of new threads based on a finite threshold (algorithm-based or simple post-count), that doesn't flip-flop in and out.

That still discourages those who are simply looking to post their stuff for sale without otherwise contributing. And it does so while not punishing those who do meet the requirements to post their stuff for sale. Yes, it would still allow "non-contributors" to buy stuff, but that seems like a small price, especially compared to the more abuse-prone ability (privilege) to sell stuff.

Like it or not, classified ads do attract a certain percentage of users. To think that there is no chance for any of those users to become "quality contributors" is a bit short-sighted, IMO. YMMV...

 

[freefly]

So you actually think that keeping this place a ghost town just so you can use the classifieds is actually in the best interests of the forum?

How many times must it be said, THIS IS NOT BACKPAGE?? YMMV also.

Sorry you have trouble reading.

By your "logic" the only reason for the content here is solely due to everyone trying to meet the minimum requirements to access the classifieds. And, if that were true, the quality of that "content" would be sub-par to begin with anyway.

 

[freefly]

Huh? You basically said above that opening the classifieds to all = forum ghost town. So, it was a "ghost town" prior to closing down the classifieds? And now (since closing them) business is booming with a spike in new memberships and/or member content quality?

So please oh wise one...explain why simply opening the classifieds to all for viewing & replying (but not posting ads until a certain threshold is met) would result in "keeping this place a ghost town".

 

[TacMedic]

Make Skynet become self-aware.

Quote to win the thread!

 

[freefly]

None of that absolutely made no sense whatsoever.

Impressive double-negative there. So, you agree with me then.

Whatever, you're still not going to get what you demand unless the admin caves in. And from what I have seen, he's not going to cave in anytime soon, so YMMV but not his.

Not a demand, just questions and possible suggestions. Again, try actually reading what I wrote. But if you want to be a Karen and immediately grab the pitch fork and shout "THIS ISN"T BACKPAGE!!!" at the sky, then that is your prerogative, I guess...

 

[freefly]

Make Skynet become self-aware.

Quote to win the thread!

That was good...

 

[tripletap]

oh sh*it i better get my post count up