New to reloading, trying to decide on a press

[delta6]

I been here a long time. I take breaks but I like the local flavor. I have probably met 30 or more people from these boards. I have good friends I met 15 or so years ago due to these boards. They have been to my home, I've attended group shots and bbq's.

Lots of guns and ammo and info have been exchanged over the years.

I didn't try to make the board seem inconsequential... you did.

While I am sure everyone appreciates you lowering yourself to participate on this unheard of forum and bestowing upon us unworthy your overwhelming breadth of knowledge perhaps it's to small a pond for you.

Me I like it just fine.

So you made it an umbrage all on your own over nothing.

And no, I did nothing of the sort to make it "inconsequential" because that was entirely on your own. I said you do you and we will do us. It doesn't take an English major to understand what I had said meaning hey, you stay doing it your way and stop worrying about us doing it in a way that you don't like. Just how on earth you made it to something else that is not what I I said, is beyond any explicable approach to reason.

Like this place all you want, it has entirely nothing to do with someone's umbrage over my suggestion to use a powder checker for safety's sake that also pulls double duty as a QA/QC insurance on the powder drops, to which I took to task over it. Bad information on any board big or small, that disregards safety and falsely claims he can see any changes in powder levels, should always be discouraged. Or should we go on and pretend that everything is okay because someone you've known for umpteen years has been okay with you. Right, that's expertise right there, because you've known him. hah!

Try talking about the subject of this thread instead of taking an imaginary offense that never occurred.

God I hate to repeat myself...
Yep, another millennial with 50 years of experience. Know everything. Yeah, I'll listen to his advice...geesch..

 

[YNOTAZ]

AZ1182, some friendly advice, you have not been around long enough to know the people you are arguing with or what their knowledge level is.

You will be much better served expressing your opinion, right or wrong, and remembering that this is the Internet, not everyone is going to agree with you, right or wrong. If your skin is too thin or you have to be right, I suggest you learn some tongue biting techniques.

 

[dread_scott]

Ok guys, I think we got a little off topic and maybe a little heated. let's breathe a little and calm down, we have too many enemies right now to be fighting each other.

So I was able to head over to AZ1182's house yesterday (thanks again!) to try out the Hornady LNL AP press and to get out of the stifling heat of the valley!

The press felt solid and smooth. There was a slight quick movement of the shell plate at the last couple millimeters, but not bad and didn't spill any powder, everything else was smooth as glass. The spring on the shellplate that holds the cases is AWESOME! AZ1182 is very adamant (a good thing) about checking powder throw and weight. Before we loaded anything we checked the throw quite a few times and that spring made it a simple thing to do, I think the Dillon would have been a real pain to do without the DIY method a lot of people do, but this is just the way the Hornady comes.

I personally do like the powder checker. Looking at dies though, I did find an RCBS lock out die that takes it one step further and it won't let you proceed if there is a low or overcharged case, I think I might go that way as it will physically stop you from making a round with a bad charge.

I loaded 300 9mm and had no issues that weren't user error (and thankfully only a couple of those). I think between no hiccups on the press, the litany of accessories for the press (they have a swager plate to knock swaging cases out quickly) and the cost savings, I will go with the Hornady press.

Fear not though Dillon fans, I might have a hookup on a used 550 and might scoop that up too to be totally covered and fully in debt! :dance:

I also learned that when it works, a Lee handloader isn't too bad, it's just that it doesn't work that often! haha I'm not exactly sure how I will do the priming yet, but I know I won't be using a Lee handloader at all!

Thanks again to AZ1182 for allowing me to come over and try the press out and also for providing the 300 brass for the cartridges that I made, plus a GOOD amount of cleaned brass to help me get started as a new reloader, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[knockonit]

lol, it matters now what reloading equipment you end up with, as each will serve the purpose, each have nuances to learn and know which will in the long run allow safe practices. they all serve a purpose as do all actions of each person doing the reloading. some get it, some dont
old journey man carpenter told me decades ago, he will teach me one way, another journey man will teach me another way, and in the end when i become them, i will have yet another way, as long as the same result is achieved, well then there you have it. success


and nothing got heated here, just fellas passion coming to the top on something they believe in, only in America can you have this.
Rj

 

[Boriqua]

When I looked at the Hornady kit and some videos I saw it came with a quite ingenious primer pickup tube for use as part of the process. Does it not work as well as it seems to?

Also ... can someone tell me more about the powder checker ... how does it work?

 

[dread_scott]

When I looked at the Hornady kit and some videos I saw it came with a quite ingenious primer pickup tube for use as part of the process. Does it not work as well as it seems to?

Also ... can someone tell me more about the powder checker ... how does it work?

Az1182 hand primes and doesn't use that function on the press, so i wasn't able to test it. When i get the press i am going to try it out and see how i like it.

The powder checker is a die that has a rod in that moves freely. There is a movable rubber o-ring that is a "ruler" that you set, to show where the current powder load youre throwing will line up. While running the press, you watch to make sure the rod and o-ring match on every pull, if not, you either have a too much or too little powder.

While i was adding the powder checker die to my cart, someone in the reviews mentioned the lock out die, which i like even more. Instead of having to watch that o-ring and visually see that its not lined up, the lock out die has an internal mechanism that checks and if it doesnt pass, it wont allow the case in the die and then you have to fix the problem before you can load more. Look up the rcbs lock out die on midwayusa, they have a video on how it works.

 

[Boriqua]

Great! Thank you for the info dread scott!

Edit: found a couple of videos. Pretty neat!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6koVra3tg0&feature=youtu.be

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_JFCylEc04o

Look forward to your thoughts on the onboard priming. I was pretty sure I was going lee turret but I don't care for the lee priming attachment so was going to preprime but that Hornady is looking pretty nice.

 

[High Standard]

The person in the video for the RCBS lockout die made a comment that he knew someone who either didn’t pay attention to his Dillon powder die or misinterpreted the die and that they made 2000 rounds with the wrong charge which they are going to have to check now.

So even with a properly set up progressive one can make thousands of mistakes due to human error.

 

[High Standard]

The person in the video for the RCBS lockout die made a comment that he knew someone who either didn’t pay attention to his Dillon powder die or misinterpreted the die and that they made 2000 rounds with the wrong charge which they are going to have to check now.

So even with a properly set up progressive one can make thousands of mistakes due to human error.

That doesn't mean anything bad for the progressive and validates that the biggest problem is the user doing things wrong. It's not because of a progressive. Pay attention. Do not get complacent. Not paying attention can mistakes just as much on a single stage. You should probably stop using them as well and give up reloading.

Would you like to be properly instructed and taught how to properly use a progressive?

Thank you for the offer but I Have decided not to use a progressive. I shoot a couple times a week and I am retired and have a lot of time on my hands. No need for a progressive. I can keep up with my shooting with my RC and turret press.

My comment was just a statement of fact made by the guy in the video. Not that I think progressives are bad in any way. I was not bashing anyone or anything. I would actually love to own a progressive but I think it would be a waste of money for me.

I have been reloading on a single stage for over 40 years and on a turret press for over 20 years. I pride myself on being quite careful and I have never made a undercharged or overcharged round. I have always caught my mistakes prior to seating the bullet. I check and double check everything before this step. I have accidentally seated a few primers backwards and not caught them. That is how I found out I needed new glasses. But I now have a process in place to prevent that from getting past me now. I follow all my processes and never skip anything. I take my time because I have the time to take.

I may be old school so my thoughts and opinions might follow suit.

 

[Boriqua]

But I now have a process in place to prevent that from getting past me now. I follow all my processes and never skip anything. I take my time because I have the time to take.

It sounded like the check die failed him. Not sure what types of bushings the check rod passes through but my understanding was it got stuck in the up position maybe due to powder gumming it up or ??

The human part was he wasn't watching to see if the rod dropped which would have confirmed function. He probably glanced... it looked right and moved on.

In the end High Standard ... a rather simple mechanical device won't beat out scanning your charged case with your own two eyes. There is nothing safer than me scanning my charged cases.

I am going to do a bit more research on the rcbs lockout die just because I'm curious but like you.... If I know the wife and I are going to the range next Thursday I can just sit and easily load 300 rounds for the visit.

I shoot all handguns and have narrowed it down to 4 cartridges. I don't take every gun to every range visit so I load what I think I will shot and usually come home with some change.

Having said that ... If you are a gamer and shooting 1000 rds a week or more you may have to give up some of the absolute control and trust some equipment.

I'm interested to see how the rcbs works mechanically. If I find any good info I will post it.

 

[dread_scott]

The person in the video for the RCBS lockout die made a comment that he knew someone who either didn’t pay attention to his Dillon powder die or misinterpreted the die and that they made 2000 rounds with the wrong charge which they are going to have to check now.

So even with a properly set up progressive one can make thousands of mistakes due to human error.

Yeah and that is where the lock out die would come in handy, it wouldn't allow the press to continue moving without it being the correct amount of powder.

Granted, that person should have been paying way more attention to miss 2k rounds (unless it was one of the automated presses) but you still have to rely on you paying attention. I'm liking the lock out die as double check with the ability of physically stopping you from making that mistake. I could see talking to the wife or laughing at something on podcast and missing that one case that got no powder and getting a squib, this die I think would help with peace of mind and a backup failsafe (you never can be too careful, right?).

Just my opinion as I had never heard of it until yesterday, so just wanted to post about it as it sounded pretty awesome.

 

[Boriqua]

I don't even know why people are still disparaging another more safer way of doing things.

Jeez man WTF!
Do you sell progressive presses or is it the powder checks!?

Bet that die hasn't been out 20 years what did people do before that?

I was commenting on what High Standard posted and the op's findings.

I do think the check die is neat but I don't know about the mechanics of the one you favor. I think the rcbs might be a better design but I still am on the fence about progressive.

Be that as it may ... is it ok by you that people have another opinion or prefer another method. Fuk man your getting a little wierd about this sh*t!

Two or three other people can't discuss merits or cons without you jumping in hysterically claiming we must be stupid.

Get some help.

We got it. Powder checks and progressive presses are from the hand of God and nothing is better than your setup. You said it several times. Now I would like to hear more about the op's experience with the press and his choice of check die please.

I will bet that in this second hand unknown forum that you decided to grace with your presence that if you added up rounds fabricated by members here it would be in the hundreds of thousands .... without you check die and using a variety of equipment.

One guy in particular who doesn't post much because of make believe know it all's like you does some pretty exotic stuff. I wish intel6 would post more here. There are a few guys you could learn things from but ... I guess you know everything

 

[High Standard]

But I now have a process in place to prevent that from getting past me now. I follow all my processes and never skip anything. I take my time because I have the time to take.

It sounded like the check die failed him. Not sure what types of bushings the check rod passes through but my understanding was it got stuck in the up position maybe due to powder gumming it up or ??

The human part was he wasn't watching to see if the rod dropped which would have confirmed function. He probably glanced... it looked right and moved on.

In the end High Standard ... a rather simple mechanical device won't beat out scanning your charged case with your own two eyes. There is nothing safer than me scanning my charged cases.

I am going to do a bit more research on the rcbs lockout die just because I'm curious but like you.... If I know the wife and I are going to the range next Thursday I can just sit and easily load 300 rounds for the visit.

I shoot all handguns and have narrowed it down to 4 cartridges. I don't take every gun to every range visit so I load what I think I will shot and usually come home with some change.

Having said that ... If you are a gamer and shooting 1000 rds a week or more you may have to give up some of the absolute control and trust some equipment.

I'm interested to see how the rcbs works mechanically. If I find any good info I will post it.

Bariqua,

I agree. Nothing beats the actual visual check. I have been doing that for 40 years and have not had a problem. I have caught myself miss charging a case. And I have caught myself double charging a case. It doesn’t happen very often. But on rare occasion it does. I’m only human, right? Which is why it is so important to do that visual check.

I was not going to get into the details that my friends had with trying to learn reloading and setting up and using a progressive press at the same time. But they obviously made some mistakes and had to disassemble some rounds due to their mistakes. I recommended they get the RCBS lockout die.

I drank the green koolaid 40 years ago and I have not been disappointed with a few exceptions. I recommend RCBS for almost (not all) of their products. Not saying they are the hands down best but for the most part, they work and they stand by their lifetime warranty without question.

My problem is I’m addicted to obsolete, obscure and old military cartridges and I love reloading for them and shooting them. So I probably have more cartridges that I load for than I should. And I cut back a lot and sold some rifles before I moved.

I usually only take one gun with me to the range and I usually only shoot 100-200 rounds per session because my arthritis prevents me from shooting much more than that. I also reload a lot of reduced loads to help with being able to shoot more and have less pain.

I’m still of the mindset that it would be better for the OP to learn reloading basics on a single stage and then graduate to a progressive. But what do I know, I’m old?

 

[High Standard]

The person in the video for the RCBS lockout die made a comment that he knew someone who either didn’t pay attention to his Dillon powder die or misinterpreted the die and that they made 2000 rounds with the wrong charge which they are going to have to check now.

So even with a properly set up progressive one can make thousands of mistakes due to human error.

Yeah and that is where the lock out die would come in handy, it wouldn't allow the press to continue moving without it being the correct amount of powder.

Granted, that person should have been paying way more attention to miss 2k rounds (unless it was one of the automated presses) but you still have to rely on you paying attention. I'm liking the lock out die as double check with the ability of physically stopping you from making that mistake. I could see talking to the wife or laughing at something on podcast and missing that one case that got no powder and getting a squib, this die I think would help with peace of mind and a backup failsafe (you never can be too careful, right?).

Just my opinion as I had never heard of it until yesterday, so just wanted to post about it as it sounded pretty awesome.

I like the sound of the lockout die as well. While I have never used one I did recommend to my friends who were starting out their reloading experience with progressive processes that they get one. Even though I never used one myself, if it worked as advertised it couldn’t hurt.

 

[knockonit]

thank good ness for the ignor function, free at last free at last. heheheh

 

[Boriqua]

Added to foes, good riddance actually

Oh thank goodness! Wierd dude but I can't say I haven't met others like you.

In the service we called em "subject matter expert in everythang"

In your foster thread you insisted the AK fired first and accused anyone who didn't agree of being a liberal or just not to smart. Your finely tuned ear knew beyond any doubt and anyone else's opinion was foolish.

Um... but you were wrong. It's ok... No one us perfect. Sooner you come to terms with that the better for your mental health and ability to make friends and influence people.

Don't know how the foe thing works but if I can find a way not to see another of your pompous a $$ posts .. it will be worth the research!

 

[TheAccountant]

I'm just confused about why you would not use the priming function on the press? Having to run the brass through the size/decap function, prime the brass off the press, and then run the brass back through the press again to finish up seems pretty inefficient for straight wall cases. I get those three steps are batched, but I would still like to know what the perceived advantages are. The pickup tubes can be a pain, but it only takes about 10-15 minutes for me to get 5 tubes loaded up, which still seems faster than straight wall brass through 3 times.

For a hand primer, 21st Century is the gold standard, but overkill for most. Frankford Arsenal has been focusing on producing quality tools as of late. I use their hand primer for anything I load that's not on a progressive and I think it works very well. There's enough leverage to make seating smooth and effortless without ruining the ability to feel the primer seat.

As far as Lee goes, their factory crimp die is great. Haven't been impressed with much else.

 

[Boriqua]

5 tubes loaded up.

How many primers does each tube hold?

 

[Boriqua]

I have caught myself double charging a case. It doesn’t happen very often. But on rare occasion it does. I’m only human, right?

I had an empty in a batch not to long ago. First time since I started with the single stage. I have a little system with the cases so that I dont miss any steps. Most would find it a bit insane but it makes me feel good but

I did something TERRIBLY stupid and I stopped to look at a text. Somehow my case system failed me.

When I did my quick flashlight scan .. there in the middle of the tray was an empty. No powder. I yelled at myself a bit because I actually hate the phone and the whole phone culture, fixed it and moved on. So yea .. we are all human and stuff happens. Glad I have checks in place but I still messed up.

 

[dread_scott]

I'm just confused about why you would not use the priming function on the press? Having to run the brass through the size/decap function, prime the brass off the press, and then run the brass back through the press again to finish up seems pretty inefficient for straight wall cases. I get those three steps are batched, but I would still like to know what the perceived advantages are. The pickup tubes can be a pain, but it only takes about 10-15 minutes for me to get 5 tubes loaded up, which still seems faster than straight wall brass through 3 times.

For a hand primer, 21st Century is the gold standard, but overkill for most. Frankford Arsenal has been focusing on producing quality tools as of late. I use their hand primer for anything I load that's not on a progressive and I think it works very well. There's enough leverage to make seating smooth and effortless without ruining the ability to feel the primer seat.

As far as Lee goes, their factory crimp die is great. Haven't been impressed with much else.

I won't speak for AZ1182 and let him answer the primer part, but I know I have heard from others that they do it so they can verify more easily that it is seated properly (orientation and height), some say they don't like the finnickiness of some progressive's primer systems, some say its therapy to sit and do it. So there are a myriad of reasons it sounds like as I've been trying to get as much info I can from as many people as possible lately.

I personally will be trying to use the press to prime, but now know that handpriming wasn't as horrible as I thought it would be, especially if I get one that doesn't have any issues. Took me 12-15 mins to hand prime 200 9mm cases. I'm brand new and was having issues with the handprimer, so that feels pretty quick to me, especially if I was doing something to pass the time; music, podcast, tv, etc.

5 tubes in the same timeframe does sound pretty nice though! Especially if I outsource and have the kid or wife do it for me! haha I'm assuming each tube holds 100?