New to reloading, trying to decide on a press

[dread_scott]

I'm getting into reloading because of the panic (as is everyone else). I was going to start last panic and didn't make it a priority, so not letting that happen again.

The other board I'm on, I made a thread asking for advice on presses and any tips. Got some good info and I have been lucky and picked up some components as they are the hardest thing to get right now.

I don't have any hardware right now, but have been looking at pieces trying to decide what to get. The biggest issue I'm having right now is the press.

Some people say get a single stage and learn first. While it is sound advice, not my speed and not really going that route. If/when I want really accurate rounds, I will get a single stage and handle that. Then there are the manually indexing and lower end progressive presses. While also nice presses, they either have things that I don't like or are not upgradeable and not really what I want.

I'm stuck between 2 presses right now the dillon 750 and the hornady lock n load ap press, and leaning towards the hornady. I went to dillon last week and played with the 550 and 750 and while the progressive part on the 750 was awesome, they didn't shine in some areas like I thought they would.

So I'm looking to see if anybody has or has had the hornady lnl ap press and any info/opinions/etc good or bad to help in my decision. Also if anyone has one setup (preferably in the west valley) that would let me come by and see it run, that would also be a big help (I'm new here, but might be able to get some members to vouch for me)!

The main goal of reloading for me now is just to have a supply of loaded ammo. Not super concerned with accuracy or cost. It is still easier and cheaper to find components right now than loaded ammo. I don't have an ammo fort like most people, so just getting rounds produced is most important. Later accuracy and cost will start mattering, in that order.

Any other help for a new reloader would also be a great help, thanks for any info!

 

[AZ_Five56]

I want to prefice this by saying that I am a beginner at reloading, and I have absolutely no experience with Hornady equipment.

I just recently got into it and I have a single stage RCBS Rock Chucker and a Dillon XL650 progressive reloader. I picked up the Rock Chucker from a board member, and upon realizing how much work I was in for when reloading something like 5.56, I went and picked up the 650. If I'm going to try to knock out a couple thousand rounds this weekend, the single stage press seems kind of crazy. On the other hand, if I'm loading something like 300 Weatherby, I'd definitely do that on the single stage press, especially since that would be in much smaller batches and I would be focused on precision. That's just my mindset, but hopefully someone else with more experience can chime in and set you straight.

The advantage to something like the Dillon will be speed, so how many rounds do you see yourself loading, how much free time do you have, and what is your time worth? I don't have a ton of Dillon equipment, but I do have a couple of tool heads so that I can have one setup for brass prep, and the other setup for loading shells. The case prep toolhead can do the resizing/depriming, swaging, and case trimming. The other toolhead is setup to prime, drop in the powder, and seat the bullet. I'd still love to get a bullet feeder so I don't have to place each bullet by hand.

 

[knockonit]

Dillon fan, converted over from Lee, have a half dozen 550s, and a 650, long story as to why,
anyway, so much easier for ME to reload on dillon, cause i guess when i moved over, never gave the other progressives a shot. So here i am, blue inside and out, service is local, quick and easy.
parts are easy, loader is easy, of course others will chime in "their" loader is the best , so on, so on.
Its really what you are doing with it, if general use range ammo, can't go wrong with progressive, again IMO. Maybe friend up with someone with a dillon and perhaps watch a reloading session and get the jist of what you are in for, most of mine came from folks that thought it was like going to the ice cream store, easy peasy. And imo it is, one must just be focused and aware, learn the nuances of the machine, when it is chugging away like a dream and when it may be having issues, this only comes of use. Kinda like knowing your car, boat or bike, you know when its fubaring up.
best of luck, nothing like zoning out and in the end have a couple k's of loaded ammo, ready to send it down range, and then a few days later, begin again,
happy saturday
Rj

 

[AZ_Five56]

But one thing I will save you time and heartache with; trimming advice. Buy this, you will not have to buy another and literally buy once and cry never. Reloaders can be some of the most stingiest and cheapest tightwads of the bunch, but this my friend, is worth every dime.

https://www.giraudtool.com/index.html

If I didn't find the used Dillon RT1200 I ended up with, I would have picked up a Giraud trimmer. It sounds like they make quality stuff, and it's nice that their trimmers trim, deburr, and chamfer unlike a lot of others on the market.

 

[AZ_Five56]

It's awesome. I'm going to buy their annealer as well some day.

That looked incredible! I read that they temporarily discontinued them while they redesign for a 2nd gen release.

 

[Joelgas1]

I’ve been reloading on a 650 and a rock chucker for years. Love them both. The only reason I would go for a 750 is to process 556 cases

 

[AZ_Five56]

I’ve been reloading on a 650 and a rock chucker for years. Love them both. The only reason I would go for a 750 is to process 556 cases

What advantages does the 750 give when it comes to 556?

 

[TomI]

Dillon 550 all day for me, but out of what you asked about. I would have to go with the 750.

 

[Joelgas1]

I’ve been reloading on a 650 and a rock chucker for years. Love them both. The only reason I would go for a 750 is to process 556 cases

What advantages does the 750 give when it comes to 556?

The 750 has an extra turret for swaging 556 brass. I’ve seen a modification that you can do on the 650 but haven’t looked into it yet

 

[AZ_Five56]

I’ve been reloading on a 650 and a rock chucker for years. Love them both. The only reason I would go for a 750 is to process 556 cases

What advantages does the 750 give when it comes to 556?

The 750 has an extra turret for swaging 556 brass. I’ve seen a modification that you can do on the 650 but haven’t looked into it yet

The 650 I picked up came with the Swage It, so I think I'm all set there!
https://swageit.com/swage-it-s650-version-2-for-small-primer/

 

[storage_man]

To the OP, I would like to know what didn't "Shine" on the 750 as stated in your first post ? That would probably help to identify where your needs are.

If one is only interested in creating a supply of range ammo, then the number 1 goal in reloading is to get it done as accurately and in a expedient time frame. I do believe the Giraud trimmer is one of the best tools to accurately trim precision loads, but for production work, it is another step in the processing of bottle neck cartridges that needs to be done, because it makes you handle the brass 1 more time. Same is true for swaging. By not swaging during the sizing process, its another step that you have to handle the brass. Unless you plan to sort your brass Military vs commercial prior to beginning to process it, you better make sure there are no mix ups in your selection process. Nothing is worse than to try to prime a case that has a crimped primer pocket, it just doesn't work and could cause a KABOOM ! Basically one almost needs to swage all brass to avoid these problems.

I use a Dillon 650 and perform only 4 steps in the process of reloading any bottleneck cartridges. Step 1, I sort and clean the brass (I use a combination of corn cob & walnut to accomplish the cleaning). I know the results of this process does not produce real shinny brass as other processes do, but I have never seen shinny rounds shoot any better than dull looking rounds. Step 2, I deprime, size, swage and TRIM all brass in this step. The tool head is setup with a Size/Deprime die in position 1, Position 2 has a Swageit installed, Position 3 had a 1200 Trimmer, and position 5 has a universal Flaring Die to open up the mouth of the case for easier projectile insertion. Since sizing of bottle neck cartridges requires lubrication of some sort to reduce wear and tear on your press, the brass needs to be cleaning again. This happens in step 3. Step 4, I swap tool heads and then Prime, drop powder, insert projectile and crimp the rounds. Also during this process, I will inspect rounds every 50 to 100 rounds for correct loads and COAL. This by far the most efficient way of loading quality bottle neck cartridges in volume.

Loading bottle neck cartridges is a whole different world than loading pistol ammunition.

 

[Remow2112]

Dillon 550. Got 3 of them. I prefer the manual index to auto index. It is also really hard to beat the warranty. I was up there 3 weeks ago to get my original powder measure looked at (purchased in 93) because it started having issues.

The guy took one look at it and said they don't use that design anymore and gave me a new one. It is Awesome. I always make sure I buy some odds and ends to support them

Dan...

 

[dread_scott]

Not a fan of Dillon, even though they're the home team here being an AZ business an all. I was taught on the Hornady APL LnL, have tried both the blue and green other cool aids and have decided that I prefer Hornady for both types of presses. I do know that if you go for the Dillon, you will like it or if you go for the Hornady, that you will like it just as much. I've only ever had break a shell retention spring and a timing shim that both times Hornady replaced on their dime no hassles, even sent extras.

To keep things short and sweet, you'll find that having both can be beneficial if you have two different designated work spaces for both. I suggest hitting the Youtubes and finding a vetted channel that focuses more on reloading experienced advice than being an infomercial shill for their favorite things. Hard to find these days but they do exist.

Would you be willing to let me see your press run? I'd like to see the hornady run in person.

I have watched some youtube videos and it seems most people are fine with their hornday's some say its about the same, some say it's better. I haven't seen any that say its absolute garbage, although im sure there are videos that say that.

 

[dread_scott]

To the OP, I would like to know what didn't "Shine" on the 750 as stated in your first post ? That would probably help to identify where your needs are.

I definitely liked the 750 more than the 550 (which the 550 also had most of these issues, plus some specific to it), but the issues I had were;

The pins that hold the shells in are annoying to remove when trying to pull a case to check a powder load. They had some that had the plastic tabs, but when trying to put them back, if you hit the pin on the machine, it would almost knock it out of the tab. The hornady has a spring and you can pull and replace the cases one handed.

The rep told me that the 750 couldn't be used with a bullet feeder. While I would start without one, I would like to upgrade at some point and that seems like a deal breaker. He was saying something about the powder measure was in the way of the bullet feeder. I asked about a friends 650 that was running a bullet feeder and he said the 650 would, but the 750 wouldn't. The friend who has the 650 said that dillon emailed and said that issue had been fixed, but not according to the rep. Seems odd to lose such a huge part of a progressive press on an updated model.

The dillon has the front part of the machine at the 6 o'clock position (big blue piece of metal right up front). The hornady has it offset at about 5 o'clock, just seems to make more sense to be able to see easier. Maybe nitpicky, but just my observation.

To change calibers is a lot pricier and slower than the hornady. Just get the quick change bushings for your dies and swap. Instead of swapping a whole tool head.

Obviously the price. The dillon is $200 more than the hornady for 'roughly' the same machine. Obviously they are different, but they are both auto indexing progressive loaders that come with roughly the same accessories, that $200 can get me dies and other things to get me started.

All of these things are small things (except the price), but they seem like they would just make the hornady slightly easier and more user friendly to use. The hornady also has a lifetime warranty and the company has been around for awhile. Don't get me wrong, the dillon was smooth as can be, just don't know if it's worth the $200 more price tag. Unless I try the hornady and its not smooth or a total piece of crap. If so, then I can live with those small annoyances and will take the dillon.

 

[dread_scott]

[/quote]You're a hands on type of learner, I take it? I have no problem with that, but I suspect that based on your location to to mine, it would be a two hour drive to you.
[/quote]

I am, or at least being able to see it run in person. Videos and pictures can be manipulated. If you can get the machine to run smoothly for a few minutes, you can just post that, etc. I've now felt the dillon and would like to compare.

Damn! Everyone so far that has one is far! haha. I had someone offer to let me check out theirs, but they are in Gilbert, which is pretty damn far from me as well. You willing to post where you are? or if not here in a PM? Cause if I have to drive anyways, I'd rather go to Prescott or something than Gilbert! haha

 

[dread_scott]

Got it and responded, thank you sir!

 

[storage_man]

Thanks for listing your issues.

I definitely liked the 750 more than the 550 (which the 550 also had most of these issues, plus some specific to it), but the issues I had were;

The pins that hold the shells in are annoying to remove when trying to pull a case to check a powder load. They had some that had the plastic tabs, but when trying to put them back, if you hit the pin on the machine, it would almost knock it out of the tab. The hornady has a spring and you can pull and replace the cases one handed.

Yes I agree, believe it or not, Dillon used to supply these plastic tabs with all of their pins in the past. Why they stopped it, was because of the thickness of the plastic tab would some times cause improper alignment of the cartridge due to the thickness of the the tabs. Note that I do make my own tabs out of clear plastic for certain calibers since they are difficult to remove.

The rep told me that the 750 couldn't be used with a bullet feeder. While I would start without one, I would like to upgrade at some point and that seems like a deal breaker. He was saying something about the powder measure was in the way of the bullet feeder. I asked about a friends 650 that was running a bullet feeder and he said the 650 would, but the 750 wouldn't. The friend who has the 650 said that dillon emailed and said that issue had been fixed, but not according to the rep. Seems odd to lose such a huge part of a progressive press on an updated model.

This is probably caused by improper training of said rep. My big problem with a bullet feeder is that you have to give up the position where the powder checker.



The dillon has the front part of the machine at the 6 o'clock position (big blue piece of metal right up front). The hornady has it offset at about 5 o'clock, just seems to make more sense to be able to see easier. Maybe nitpicky, but just my observation.

To change calibers is a lot pricier and slower than the hornady. Just get the quick change bushings for your dies and swap. Instead of swapping a whole tool head.

Yes I agree, the Hornady solution is much cheaper -50%. As far as speed, both would take about the same time.

Obviously the price. The dillon is $200 more than the hornady for 'roughly' the same machine. Obviously they are different, but they are both auto indexing progressive loaders that come with roughly the same accessories, that $200 can get me dies and other things to get me started.

I agree, and and $200 is a lot of money

All of these things are small things (except the price), but they seem like they would just make the hornady slightly easier and more user friendly to use. The hornady also has a lifetime warranty and the company has been around for awhile. Don't get me wrong, the dillon was smooth as can be, just don't know if it's worth the $200 more price tag. Unless I try the hornady and its not smooth or a total piece of crap. If so, then I can live with those small annoyances and will take the dillon.

After you make your decision, come back and tell us how well the Hornady solution is working out.

 

[dread_scott]

After you make your decision, come back and tell us how well the Hornady solution is working out.

Whichever route I go, I will try to update the thread. I will be going this week to check out a Hornady in action to see if it is the press I would like to pursue.

 

[Delfuego]

If you have a reloading mentor go with progressive. If not start single stage. Hopefully your new mentor is a Dillon guy too!

Absolutely but Dillon over Hornady. Hornady is not even in the same league. Plus Dillon is here in AZ. I drove by them every day. They make the best. Your not gonna end up saving any money buying another brand.

Make sure you get good measurement tools. They are mandatory.

 

[samnev]

I use 3 presses. A RockChucker with a Dillon RT 1200 for trimming An RCBS 4X4 for 308 and a
Dillon 550B for everything else. When I want precision loads I use the RCBS ChargeMaster for dispensing powder.