New 4473

[OMart]

So new form is on the way. February 2023 is implementation date but can be used now. Has the BS about the 18 to 20 year olds getting screwed out of their 2A rights. New question about do you live in the city limits (why should that matter, it has your address and next month, next year, 5-years that could easily be annexed). The one that really gets me is the new questions 21.B and 21.C ... Ammunition. Is the Biden era alphabet agency going to demand background checks for ammo? The wording is weird. I trust the majority of our current Supreme Court has the correct interpretation of the Constitution at heart, but too many things are wonky these days.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

 

[thom]

In the last couple of lines it says that you can't buy a gun and make a profit selling it. Does anyone else read it that way?

 

[Razai]

I wondered about that as well. It seems to question the intent of the purchase. I never buy a new gun with the intent to sell it, but you all see my ads. I get bored easily and do a lot of horse trading. I do not like the implication that this habit will somehow label me in their eyes.

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

In the last couple of lines it says that you can't buy a gun and make a profit selling it. Does anyone else read it that way?

It says " I further understand that the repetitive purchase of firearms for the purpose of resale to predominantly earn a profit without a Federal firearms license is a violation of Federal law ".

As far as I know that has always been the law.
If you want to wheel and deal in firearms for profit , you are supposed to have an FFL.

 

[Abbey]

It should go without saying that I don't like anything about 4473 forms in general.

But ignoring that for the moment and just looking at the changes, I read it as legalese to emphasize that possibly prohibited behavior as a gun owner. As Ballistic Therapy called out, it has been a federal law for a long time that you can't deal in firearms without a license. And it has also been a law that you can't knowingly sell to prohibited persons. I see this as a clumsy attempt to try to make people aware of that (and of course now you can't claim ignorance, because you signed the cryptic legalese form).

It's especially bad because 21.b assumes you already know what is contained in 21.c-m.

So my take is "this is slightly more stupid than the previous stupid" but I'll fill it out and roll my eyes and go about my day.

 

[Tenring]

The form reads.....you are a criminal for wanting to buy a firearm, the questions are intended to confuse so they can make a case against you if they choose.

 

[SupportTheSecond]

I'm still laughing at the change they made to gender earlier.

 

[Abbey]

I'm still laughing at the change they made to gender earlier.

I don't care what someone's opinions on gender are - they should be able to buy a gun. What annoyed me more was, if you're going to make the gender question meaningless, why not just remove the question and make the form just a tiny bit simpler? Noooo... can't do that...

 

[action magic]

A) Yes, it matters. If that person cannot figure out something as simple as male or female, then no gun.
B) Its a simple question for those that may have to identify the purchaser at a later date.
C) Form simpler? Hell, it shouldn't exist.

 

[Gunslinger808]

I'm still laughing at the change they made to gender earlier.

Here in Arizona it’s meaningless.
According to the ATF if you check the non binary box you have to redo the 4473 and check either male or female since Arizona driver licenses have only those two possibilities, and the 4473 needs to match the accompanying ID.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

I'm still laughing at the change they made to gender earlier.

Here in Arizona it’s meaningless.
According to the ATF if you check the non binary box you have to redo the 4473 and check either male or female since Arizona driver licenses have only those two possibilities, and the 4473 needs to match the accompanying ID.

I have been putting an X in non binary since it first got on the 4473, but I have a CCP so it's irrelevant. If they're gonna put that nonsense on there, I'll utilize it to show the stupidity of it.

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[XJThrottle]

I'm still laughing at the change they made to gender earlier.

Here in Arizona it’s meaningless.
According to the ATF if you check the non binary box you have to redo the 4473 and check either male or female since Arizona driver licenses have only those two possibilities, and the 4473 needs to match the accompanying ID.

I have been putting an X in non binary since it first got on the 4473, but I have a CCP so it's irrelevant. If they're gonna put that nonsense on there, I'll utilize it to show the stupidity of it.

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

Either I was just arbitrarily burning through the questions, or it's been too long since I bought a new gun. I never even noticed the non binary bullchit.

Probably the latter.

 

[Gunslinger808]

I'm still laughing at the change they made to gender earlier.

Here in Arizona it’s meaningless.
According to the ATF if you check the non binary box you have to redo the 4473 and check either male or female since Arizona driver licenses have only those two possibilities, and the 4473 needs to match the accompanying ID.

I have been putting an X in non binary since it first got on the 4473, but I have a CCP so it's irrelevant. If they're gonna put that nonsense on there, I'll utilize it to show the stupidity of it.

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

The FFL you use is going to get gigged for that next time they do an inspection.
And right now the way the ATF is being, it’ll probably be counted as violations rather than just correct it and forget it like it used to be.
They went through my books in October acting like they would get bonuses for shutting down FFLs.

 

[OMart]

[/quote]

The FFL you use is going to get gigged for that next time they do an inspection.
And right now the way the ATF is being, it’ll probably be counted as violations rather than just correct it and forget it like it used to be.
They went through my books in October acting like they would get bonuses for shutting down FFLs.
[/quote]

That is the exact feeling I have been getting. With the "findings" and all. I think the current agenda is since they can't really get the control the administration wants, then eliminate the dealers.

 

[ducatilover]

I recently filled out a 4473 and didn’t see the gender option but I was informed by my FFL that they would have to report my 2 handgun purchase to the atf. I can give two shirts about gender. But I thought the reporting was mandatory if there were 3 firearms purchased?

The FFL did inform me that they got audited and were in violation on a couple of things regarding xfers of AR receivers. Something about rifle lowers be pistol lowers.

I buy guns with the intent to keep. If I decide to sell for whatever reason and i sell at market/street price that’s not my fault. I sell at what the market would bear. Basic economics. I’ve sold a few for less than what I paid. Do I get a write off? No. ATF can suck it.

 

[QuietM4]

But I thought the reporting was mandatory if there were 3 firearms purchased?

Anytime two or more handguns with a 5 business day period by the same person, the FFL must complete and file a Form 3310.4. And, since we are a border state, anytime two or more semi-automatic rifles with a detachable magazine with a caliber larger than .22lr are purchased in a 5 business day period, Form 3310.12.

 

[nvgdude]

The FFL did inform me that they got audited and were in violation on a couple of things regarding xfers of AR receivers. Something about rifle lowers be pistol lowers.

Lowers are "other". Checking either pistol or rifle is a technical violation now.