mechanical combo lock just decided not to open

[QuangTri]

Weird, and as it is the weekend, no help available so I thought I would throw it out here.

Last December took receipt of a new Liberty safe with mechanical lock. Lock worked fine as long as you did not mess up the turns.
Yesterday morning, opened and closed it several times. Afternoon go to open it and do net get the usual "stop" at around 87 so the handle would operate.

Tried the +1,+2 and -1,-2 tricks. Nothing. Was told that should not be the issue with a new lock.

Anyone hear of this happening? Will try the safe place I got it from come business hours Monday. Do not want to pay for an emergency call on a safe should be under warranty.

So much for the reliability of mechanical locks

 

[kenpoprofessor]

BillDesertHills on here is a locksmith, you should ask him.

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[QuangTri]

Done, gracias.

 

[iammaxwell]

Hope they make it right for you.

FWIW
Years back I got a used safe that needed a new lock. Did lots of research, and ultimately opted for a keyed lock. I love it.
https://mbausa.com/4-wheel-keyed-safe-lock-pair-of-3-keys-2-piece-escutcheon/
Always wondered why you never see this as an option on a new safe.

 

[QuangTri]

Watched a video of the inner workings of a S & G lock. With some BFG (rubber mallet) banging about the spot I figured all should be lined up, it released and the handle turned.

Now of course I do not trust it to lock it again. Would seem like a bit of lubing or something if it did not want to slip in without the thumping. Emergency call said the numbers should not have slipped on a new lock, so it makes sense the hook thing was just not slipping into place.

 

[Drmark]

Sounds like a burr, or a/some metal shaving issue. Have the whole lock assembly gone through under warranty. KY jelly is not the fix!

 

[QuangTri]

Safe shop does not open for another 40 minutes. Will see if I get attention right away or not.

Since it was open, tried the lock, and it is still farqued up. Good, nothing worse than a problem going away on it's own just to show back up at the worst time.

 

[smithers599]

My safe has an electronic lock, which now and then acts up. I have taken to keeping one gun concealed in the house, so that I always have one that I can get to if the safe won't open.

 

[cool arrow]

My safe has an electronic lock, which now and then acts up.

my solution to that was to have identical safes. that way if one lock fails, I swap locks to open the corresponding safe

 

[TheAccountant]

My safe has an electronic lock, which now and then acts up.

my solution to that was to have identical safes. that way if one lock fails, I swap locks to open the corresponding safe

How exactly are you swapping locks without opening the safe? Keypads, fine, but that’s not usually what fails.

 

[cool arrow]

I bought 3 of the exact same safe, when the battery dies in one, I can swap the keypad from one to another and open the safe.

I had one where the keypad went out, and having them be the same allowed me to open the safe while I awaited a replacement keypad.

 

[smithers599]

So, QuangTri, what's the after-action report? Did the dealer clean, lube, repair, replace?

 

[QuangTri]

So, QuangTri, what's the after-action report? Did the dealer clean, lube, repair, replace?

Liberty replied after suggesting all the "usual" jiggery pokery with +1,2, etc. The tech did mention that it was unlikely a fairly new lock would have slipped a number.

They accepted that it was hosed and are sending a new lock to the safe dealer for install and issued a work order. Would imply they expect the lock to be messed up.

Dunno how long to get a lock from Payson Utah to Tucson. Still waiting for Road Runner safe to contact for the replacement work.

Being able get in and recover stuff took a load off my mind at least. Be climbing the walls if my toys were in there.

Further unlocking tries with the door open do not work, seemed to be a progressive failure. Very intrigued to find out what went wrong. Just had a feeling mech locks worked forever.

 

[knockonit]

i've had my share of electronic go back, but never a tumbler, hmmm, guess no matter what you buy, trouble is in the future of it.
Rj

 

[Drmark]

Mechanical shit will fail. However, years ago there was this thing called "quality control".

 

[admin]

In 20+ years of safe ownership covering various models from cheap Stack-On safes (not cabinets, but safes), to inexpensive Cannon safes, to higher end safes - every single one has had an electronic keypad lock and I've never once had any failures of the locks. I still have my very first Stack-On safe (12 gun model?) and have had zero issues with it - and it gets opened on a daily basis.

While you hear of electronic locks failing more often than mechanical dials, I think there are considerably more electronic locks out there on safes, so it would be expected to hear more about them failing.

Hopefully you get your safe and lock fixed - it would certainly not make me happy if I didn't trust a safe to open when needed.

 

[QuangTri]

Mechanical s*** will fail. However, years ago there was this thing called "quality control".

Mechanisms with springs are prime examples if the springs are highly stressed. A safe lock should not be such an application. My suspicion here is the spring that keeps the "arm" or pawl following the tumbler. I got it to engage by bumping it to fall into position to unlock.

The spring I suspect is looped over the pawl. Considering the penalty of a broken spring (locked closed), I would have designed it with a redundant spring:

 

[billdeserthills]

So, QuangTri, what's the after-action report? Did the dealer clean, lube, repair, replace?

Liberty replied after suggesting all the "usual" jiggery pokery with +1,2, etc. The tech did mention that it was unlikely a fairly new lock would have slipped a number.

They accepted that it was hosed and are sending a new lock to the safe dealer for install and issued a work order. Would imply they expect the lock to be messed up.

Dunno how long to get a lock from Payson Utah to Tucson. Still waiting for Road Runner safe to contact for the replacement work.

Being able get in and recover stuff took a load off my mind at least. Be climbing the walls if my toys were in there.

Further unlocking tries with the door open do not work, seemed to be a progressive failure. Very intrigued to find out what went wrong. Just had a feeling mech locks worked forever.

'Progressive failure'-- sounds like the worst kind

You'll likely accept the lock Roadrunner installs for you, if you wanted you could get a redundant lock for your safe, that gives you two ways of opening it

https://www.safeandvaultstore.com/products/amsec-lp-rotobolt-redundant-lock-dial-combo-and-electronic-retrofit-kit?variant=21418224287802&scid=scbplpshopify_US_2131215188026_21418224287802&sc_intid=shopify_US_2131215188026_21418224287802%20FB%20-%20&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=cpc&scid=scplpshopify_US_2131215188026_21418224287802&sc_intid=shopify_US_2131215188026_21418224287802&kpid=go_cmp-370378218_adg-1175378818339091_ad-_pla-4577060753199845_dev-c_ext-_prd-shopify_US_2131215188026_21418224287802_sig-&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SC%20-%20Shopping%20-%20Desktop&utm_term=4577060753199845&utm_content=All%20Products

This lock is a digital and also has a mechanical dial & it's emp proof too

 

[QuangTri]

From the email I got from Liberty"

"we will have them put a Prologic lock on your safe, that is an upgrade high end lock."

As long as the damn thing is reliable. I am still stunned that a S & G lock would fail less than a year old.

Hope they let me take a look at it after removal.

 

[billdeserthills]

From the email I got from Liberty"

"we will have them put a Prologic lock on your safe, that is an upgrade high end lock."

As long as the damn thing is reliable. I am still stunned that a S & G lock would fail less than a year old.

Hope they let me take a look at it after removal.

There won't be anything to see, unless you take the lock apart & even then it sounds like your wheels slipped. Unfortunately S&G has been going downhill lately in the mechanical lock department, which is why they now have Big Red as a competitor
http://www.bigredsafelocks.com/Home-page/

Most folks seem to want a digital lock on their safe but Pro Logic or Securam as I know them by isn't what I would call an 'upgrade'. I'm sure they are considered an upgrade to any safe company over a mechanical lock tho...