Kyle Rittenhouse trial update thread

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I have to agree. Nobody could be that incompetent, could they? If he can piss off the judge, he can claim that he was the victim of a biased judge. Then he can run for AG, or get a job as legal consultant to MSNBC.
But I also have to say, that 18-year-old kid is nailing it. He is a truly great witness.
 
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Liberals demand new judge in Rittenhouse case after his phone rings during trial with patriotic ringtone



https://www.theblaze.com/news/rittenhouse-judge-ringtone-liberals-mistrial?utm_source=theblaze-dailyAM&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily-Newsletter__AM%202021-11-11&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Daily%20AM


In response, many on the left latched on to the idea that the judge's ringtone was evidence that he was biased in favor of Rittenhouse.

Among those were the former White House photographer during the Obama administration, Pete Souza, who tweeted, "Mistrial. Assign a new judge."
 
https://www.foxnews.com/us/kyle-rittenhouse-defense-case-jury-deliberations


The defense also called Frank "Drew" Hernandez, a self-proclaimed "professional commentator" for Real America’s Voice, who was capturing video footage on the night of the shooting, including the moments leading up to the shootings.

Hernandez testified that he saw Rittenhouse's interaction with rioters and his effort to de-escalate their actions at times on Aug. 25, 2020. He described how "rioters" were throwing rocks, including at police, and launching fireworks.

"When the rioters were being dispersed further down Sheridan towards the Car Source dealership, down the street," he recalled, "the rioters were grabbing concrete slabs there, throwing them on the floor to create more rocks and to throw them at police officers, they were launching fireworks and other explosives."

Hernandez added during his testimony that the "rioters initiated that conflict" with the individuals who had "long-arm rifles."

"The rioters identified individuals with long-arm rifles on top of the building, and they immediately attempted to agitate them to try and start some conflict with them, saying, 'You ain't the police, you ain't the police,’" Hernandez explained.

Hernandez later added that Rittenhouse "clearly attempts to de-escalate the situation, and he actually is successful because the rioters then disperse."

But the prosecution spent much of its cross-examination questioning Hernandez’s alleged bias toward Rittenhouse.

At one point, Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger questioned Hernandez about his social media posts in which he calls Rittenhouse by his first name, but calls Joseph Rosenbaum, one of the three men shot by Rittenhouse, by his last name or "Mr. Rosenbaum."

Binger further asked Hernandez about a tweet from the night of Aug. 25, 2020, in which he writes about an "armed citizen" whom he had seen shooting a "rioter."

"It appears an armed citizen was defending the car dealership and opened fire on the rioter who was attempting to vandalize or burn the dealership down," the tweet states, in part.

After reading the tweet aloud, Binger asks: "By the time you had made a conclusion in your own mind that what they defendant did was the right thing?"
 
Wonder if there will be riots if in (the highly unlikely event) the verdict finds him guilty.
 
mtptwo said:
Suck My Glock said:
There should be.

Why?

If he is found guilty then everyone who claims to care about justice or rule of law should be upset.

I wouldn’t call for riots, but there should be large scale demonstrations. Ideally a lot of pressure on the governor to pardon him as well as pressure to charge the rioters, those who perjured themselves, and for prosecutorial misconduct.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW9YR5OyTa8&t=1s



And the comments!!!

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I give this a 5.56 out of 3

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I laughed so hard, my bicep exploded!

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Schroedinger's arm: Gaige was both armed and unarmed simultaneously.
 
https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/12/lefts-attacks-on-kyle-rittenhouse-are-part-of-a-bigger-plan-to-disband-the-well-regulated-militia/
See the left does know a little bit of the constitution, they want to erase the word militia.
 
Since you didn’t ask, I will give you my opinion anyway.

If facts mattered, the jury would find Rittenhouse not guilty on all counts, except for possession by a minor. However, facts don’t matter. If facts mattered, he would not have been charged. So, there is always the possibility that the jurors are a bunch of nitwits who believe in their hearts that possessing an AR15 is prima facie proof of homicidal intent, or that going into a danger zone with a gun is prima facie proof of homicidal intent. (Except for Grosskreutz, of course. Rittenhouse’s lawyer never asked him why he brought a gun into the situation. Why not?)

High likelihood the jury finds him not guilty on all counts (except for possession by a minor), for two reasons:
- The verdict needs to be unanimous, and although I believe there are many stupid people in the world, and some on the jury, I think it unlikely that all 12 would be that dumb. So worst case, hung jury, which is the same as acquittal except the prosecutor could refile the charges. (Unless the judge grants the motion for dismissal at that point.)
- The prosecutor needs to prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that Rittenhouse was not acting in self defense. If a juror says “I think Rittenhouse may not have been acting in self-defense, but I admit it’s at least plausible that he was acting in self-defense,” then that is supposed to be a not guilty verdict. For a verdict of guilty, the jurors would have to believe “No reasonable person could possibly think this was self-defense. Self-defense? That’s crazy talk. That’s like claiming space aliens pulled the trigger.”

However, at the last minute, the prosecutor proposed reduced charges, so jurors could feel sorry for the prosecutor, and want to give him a consolation prize. Or they could be afraid of rioters/retribution, and want to throw the wolves a bone to take heat off themselves. Or they could think “I think he’s not guilty, but surely the DA would not have brought this case if there was nothing there, right? He must be guilty of something.” It’s easy for them to say “I don’t think he’s guilty, but let’s give him ‘only’ ten years in prison instead of life in prison. He’ll only be 28 when he gets out, so no big deal.”

About the prosecutor:
It’s hard to believe he is that incompetent. Any lawyer knows Thou Shalt Not bring up the subject of invoking the right to remain silent. You can get suspended for that. And on and on. This guy is stunningly horrible. But, is he really that bad, or is he throwing the case on purpose? It’ll be interesting to see if he brings up verboten material in his closing argument, causing the defense lawyer to object (something rarely done) or more likely, causing the judge to interrupt him.

About the defense lawyer:
Not bad, but not great. Did a good job getting the witnesses to say the right things. (Especially Grosskreutz.) Did a great job prepping Rittenhouse. But there are a couple of things I think he could have done better.
- The self-defense case re Rosenbaum is based on whether a reasonable person could believe that Rosenbaum was (a) grabbing for the gun and (b) would have used it to shoot Rittenhouse if he had gotten it, versus he was not grabbing for the gun, or he was grabbing for the gun just to disarm Rittenhouse and he would not have used the gun himself. IOW, was the unarmed Rosenbaum defending himself against the armed Rittenhouse? (Will the prosecutor lay it out like that in his closing argument?) That’s a good argument, because it is not clear “beyond a reasonable doubt” that Rosenbaum was not grabbing the gun or would not have used it. Nevertheless, the defense should have had a backup plan – having an expert witness dispel the myth that you can’t shoot an unarmed man because an unarmed man does not present “deadly force.” The expert should have educated the jury that 6-700 people a year are killed by people who are unarmed vs. maybe half that by people with AR15s. Because the defense did not bring it up, the prosecutor is likely to raise it in his closing argument.
- The prosecutor intends to make a big deal about Rittenhouse using FMJ ammunition, which is evidence that he recklessly disregarded the risk of bullets overpenetrating and hitting a bystander. Because the charge of reckless endangerment was added at the last minute, that gives the prosecutor an opening. The defense lawyer should have gone after that in the argument for jury instructions. “Your honor, there are only two kinds of ammunition: hollow point and non-hollow point. If a defendant uses hollow point ammunition, the prosecutor can claim that is evidence that the defendant wanted to inflict maximum pain and death. If a defendant uses non-hollow point ammunition, the prosecutor can claim that the defendant recklessly disregarded the risk of overpenetration. There was no evidence presented at trial to show that FMJ ammunition fired from an AR15 penetrates more (or significantly more) than hollow point, so the prosecutor should not be able to make that argument.” Alternatively, the defense lawyer should have gotten an expert to talk about the likelihood of overpenetration of that brand of ammunition from that barrel length, in comparison with other types of ammunition. At the very least, the defense lawyer better be prepared in closing argument to tell the jury that there was no such testimony, but that in any case, they could interpret the use of FMJ as evidence that Rittenhouse did not want to use “more deadly” hollow point ammunition. I remember how Harold Fish got screwed when the prosecutor raised the subject of hollow point ammunition for the first time in his closing argument, and how the judge let it go, and Fish’s lawyer let it go. I hope the prosecutor doesn’t get away with it this time.
- There was a better answer to “Why did you have a gun?” Answer: “I thought it would be a deterrent. I thought rioters and arsonists would see people with guns and decide to go somewhere else and leave that business alone. I never thought I would actually have to shoot somebody.” “Then why did you load the gun?” “Just in case I ran across some psychotic violent criminals, off their meds, who would be crazy enough to try to kill me while I was carrying a gun.” “OBJECTION!” “Sustained. The jury will disregard the statement about psychotic violent criminals off their meds.”

About the judge:
He knows that this is a bulls__t case, which should never have been brought. He has left open the defense motion to dismiss. I would not be too surprised if, after closing arguments, the judge says “I have made a decision regarding the motion to dismiss. The prosecutor’s conduct has been so egregious that I grant the motion to dismiss, with prejudice. Rittenhouse is a free man, and I will be recommending that the Wisconsin Bar investigate the prosecutor’s unethical misconduct.” I would especially expect that if the prosecutor steps over the line again during his closing argument.

The judge really would prefer to pass the buck to the jury, and let them come back with a not guilty verdict. So, if he reads the jury as being inclined to not guilty, he may let the jury decide the case, knowing that if they do find Rittenhouse guilty, he has an ace in the hole, a judgment notwithstanding the verdict – effectively overruling the jury. That is almost never used, but I’m thinking this guy is 75 years old. He is ready to retire, and he is pissed off at what he sees as a gross miscarriage of justice. “Let the heathen rage” – his pension is secure. He can move to Florida, and he can supplement that fat pension with consulting expert fees on Fox News and elsewhere.

My revised prediction: The jury finds Rittenhouse guilty on a lesser charge. IMO, that would be a terrible injustice; this is as clear a case of self-defense as ever there was. But, sometimes injustice prevails. Sometimes the bad guys win.

Now let’s just wait and see how wrong I was.

Your turn: Tell me what an idiot I am, but make your own prediction and give your reasons.
 
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Maybe the possession by a minor charge won't stick?

Was Rittenhouse’s Possession of the AR-15 Unlawful? – JONATHAN TURLEY
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/11/14/was-rittenhouses-possession-of-the-ar-15-unlawful/#more-180669
 
That was my impression after listening to the arguments. The judge seemed to agree with the defense - best case it was extremely vague. I read it and it seemed like the defense’s interpretation made sense, and it actually seemed quite clear that didn’t apply to 17 year olds, but maybe I’m just biased.
 
smithers599 said:
Maybe the possession by a minor charge won't stick?

Was Rittenhouse’s Possession of the AR-15 Unlawful? – JONATHAN TURLEY
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/11/14/was-rittenhouses-possession-of-the-ar-15-unlawful/#more-180669

Judge just threw out the possession by a minor charge! Wow!
 
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