Jorgenson and guns

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Gunslinger55

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
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676
Location
Tempe/chandler
So AZ gun peeps what's thee consensus of the gun people and Libertarian vote? Looks like we are in for some rough times and my California neighbors are gloating at AZ becoming a eastern suburb of the western state from hell. Throwing those 49000 votes down plus the other abnormalities oh yay
 
This may be the first time since Ross Perot that an independent candidate actually screwed up an election. I don't know how many Jo Jorgenson voters would have voted for Trump, but it could have made a difference in some counties/states. She got 1.2% of the vote...that could have been a deciding factor in key states.
 
QuietM4 said:
This may be the first time since Ross Perot that an independent candidate actually screwed up an election. I don't know how many Jo Jorgenson voters would have voted for Trump, but it could have made a difference in some counties/states. She got 1.2% of the vote...that could have been a deciding factor in key states.
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This whole thing reminded me of Ross Perot as well...
 
I've been a Libertarian since before 1990. In answering this, I can only offer you my personal observations. Take it or leave it as you please. But I can tell you truthfully that a LARGE percentage of libertarians voted for Trump this time around. Mostly because of internal squabbles within the Libertarian political cliques during the past 12 years have internally caused the party to not be growing with the dynamism and enthusiasm as it had been previously. Libertarians have also benefited in previous elections when the main candidates are not so different. All of this led to me hearing from long-time libertarian friends (whom I thought would NEVER vote other than LBT) declaring that they were voting for Trump this year. And I'm not talking a few.

Just look at the percentage,...1.9,...that's pathetic, even by our low expectations. We Libertarians uniformly get 3+% without even trying. The highest percentage of any state's vote count was South Dakota, at 2.9%.

In my personal experience as a libertarian activist over the years, that comes out to about a 40% reduction in vote performance that could have or should have been expected.

Basically, the Libertarians performed worse this year than perhaps any year since 1988. There were huge defections to the Trump camp on this one.

And it wasn't because any of us liked Trump. It was all about the growing communist thuggery that Biden and Harris will let run amok.

But as I've said previously,...the Republican Party birthed the Libertarian Party by abandoning principles. To kill it off, all they have to do is become principled again.
 
The sooner the majority of the voting public realizes that both the Republican and Democratic parties are massive failures, the better off we all will be.

I've often wondered why two politicians of opposing parties just don't get together and form a viable alternative. There has to be dozens of R's and D's who are true centrists and agree on more topics than disagree....but for one reason or another, they are forced into putting an R or a D after their name on a ballot and adopting party beliefs that they do not truly agree with.

I always hear politicians talking about "divided" this country is, and what should be done about it, but none of them will stop identifying with one side or the other.
 
In a race this close in AZ in particular 49,000 votes is huge. Could be the difference in this place be Kali east or not.

WTF is the holdup counting votes?
 
QuietM4 said:
The sooner the majority of the voting public realizes that both the Republican and Democratic parties are massive failures, the better off we all will be.

I've often wondered why two politicians of opposing parties just don't get together and form a viable alternative. There has to be dozens of R's and D's who are true centrists and agree on more topics than disagree....but for one reason or another, they are forced into putting an R or a D after their name on a ballot and adopting party beliefs that they do not truly agree with.

I always hear politicians talking about "divided" this country is, and what should be done about it, but none of them will stop identifying with one side or the other.
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Centrists are not the answer. They're the part of the Republican party that caves to the left constantly, and disppoints me the most when the right has an advantage and refuses to use it. They're politicians without principles.

The primary reason I like Orangeman is that he fights. I don't agree with everything he does, but overall, he's a breath of fresh air in politics. Far from perfect, but as close as I've seen in my lifetime.

The Libertarian party committed suicide in 2016 with Gary Johnson and William Weld. If they never recover, they have nobody to blame but themselves.
 
Im on a bunch of libertarian pages. Lots of people who voted for Jo absolutely detest Trump and would not have voted for him under any circumstances. I dont think they made any difference to the outcome.
 
QuietM4 said:
... I've often wondered why two politicians of opposing parties just don't get together and form a viable alternative. There has to be dozens of R's and D's who are true centrists and agree on more topics than disagree....
Click to expand...

Ya, then we can just be 1/2 communist.

The whole swamp left/right paradigm is BS. Nazis on the right (total tyranny) and communism on the left (total tyranny) where does freedom and liberty fit in?
The true paradigm IMHO is tyranny on the left, complete freedom on the right. Our goal in America is to get as close to complete freedom as possible just allowing for enough government to handle the a..holes that can't control themselves.
 
I've been a Libertarian most of my life, but I've never voted anything but Republican because I want my vote to count for something.
 
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