Interesting experience outside of tombstone tactical yesterday

[tobylazur]

Meet up with a guy to sell a rifle and he suggested the Tombstone Tactical parking lot as a "gun friendly" place that was in the middle between our two locations.

I get there, park between the old building and the underwear store and meet with the guy I'm meeting. I had barely opened the rifle case when a guy came around the corner and approached us. He said "Gentlemen, I have you on camera right now making a very obvious transaction out here. Now I have the ATF inside inspecting me so I need you to leave."

I respond "sorry man, do you need us just off the property, or like the otherside of the mall?"

He talks over me, "If you don't go right now I will have the ATF come out here and check on you boys!"

Now I'm kind of caught off guard and all I can manage is "What?!"

So he says again "Leave, or I'll have the ATF come out here".

I look at the dude I just barely meet and says "we can just go over there" and points across the parking lot. But in my head I'm thinking "f*** it, send them out here".

Anyway, I don't know what the hell was going on at Tombstone yesterday, but they certainly didn't seem very gun friendly and ultimately kicked us out of their parking lot.

 

[Winmagbill]

Years ago I had someone from Scottsdale GC come out and ask us to leave. They were very polite and didn’t threaten an ATF agent. They did say something about the atf and certain rules, but that’s all years ago. We just moved on.

 

[RufusXG]

I'm curious as to what "rules" may have been in play here.

 

[Joe_Blacke]

Private FTF transactions on FFL property will get an FFL in trouble.

I don’t know an FFL that allows it.

How he handles the issue is a separate matter.

 

[Cbvanb]

I'm curious as to what "rules" may have been in play here.

My guess is he is in the business of selling guns and doesn’t want the competition in his parking lot. I had an FFL once upon a time and I don’t recall any rule regarding this situation. It’s not like the FFL was encouraging people to bypass him and his record keeping obligations.

 

[admin]

Any firearm transaction on an FFL's property that doesn't involve the FFL is going to be a big no-no, as far as I know.

 

[RufusXG]

If there is such a rule, it seems excessive to extend the premises to include a parking lot outside said ffls establishment, but maybe that's just me.

 

[pneuby]

IF that gent was mid-to-late 40's with salt-n-pepper hair/moustache, he is a (thee?) manager.

 

[admin]

If there is such a rule, it seems excessive to extend the premises to include a parking lot outside said ffls establishment, but maybe that's just me.

ATF IOI's have a history of subjectively interpreting rules and regulations and individually have the power to take away a dealer's FFL, permanently. I find absolutely no fault in the dealer/FFL not even wanting to provide that latitude to an ATF IOI and telling people who are not even customers to go do their firearm transaction elsewhere.

The beef is with the ATF, not the dealer/FFL trying to protect their business.

 

[RufusXG]

First, he wants them to leave so the atf won't see them. If they don't comply, his response is to sic the atf on them? Okay.......

 

[Doc]

Like I needed one more reason to know Tombstone is not for me.

Carry on gents.

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

The guy has ATF inside his store at the time inspecting him.
It is illegal for anyone to do a private sale on his property , being he is an FFL.
It is on camera.
If all this is true , how in the hell can you fault him for not wanting the sale done on his property.

 

[RufusXG]

No one has established that any of that is or was true.

 

[Joe_Blacke]

No one has established that any of that is or was true.

Is there a specific law? Not that I know of. Does it matter? No.

As I understand it, it is because the ATF has determined that the FFL is responsible for every gun sold on his property. The ATF has given guidance to FFLs on this. Nobody wants to be the test case. There is a lot of grey between licensee premises vs what may be argued as an unlicensed gun show.

I know when AZEX had his license, and when Cavalry Arms had their license this issue came up on the old board. Both of them said FTF private transaction were verboten on their property and had actually told people to leave when they saw it happening.

Why not reach out to Gunslinger and get his take as he is an FFL.

 

[Suck My Glock]

We all know how actually dangerous the ATF are. They are literally lethal. I can see where ATF would persecute an FFL of "allowing" non-FFL transactions on their property. So merely out of self-preservation and to keep them from shooting his dog, he comes out and tells y'all to git. Sure he could have been a whole lot nicer and more respectful about it. Threatening to sick the ATF on you wasn't cool. But considering what the ATF can do to him if they have an excuse (and we know they are always looking for an excuse), I can't really be too harsh on the guy.

 

[DuneShoot]

Hola Toby.

 

[tobylazur]

IF that gent was mid-to-late 40's with salt-n-pepper hair/moustache, he is a (thee?) manager.

Salt and pepper mustache for sure. Had a hat on though.

 

[tobylazur]

Hola Toby.

Hey! I know you!

 

[delta6]

No one has established that any of that is or was true.

As I understand it, it is because the ATF has determined that the FFL is responsible for every gun sold on his property. ........

There is no federal regulation that says that and there is no AZ law that states that.

 

[Lobo2087]

The atf MIGHT have been able to do something with the ffl but not the private sale people. Now if tombstone is the sole proprietor of the mall parking lot then it could be construed by a stretch as involving them and someone could be told to leave the property. Someone refusing to leave assuming tombstone has authority over the entire lot and not just inside their walls would be trepass which is a city issue in which atf could pound sand. It would take city or county leo to enforce that.

Regardless just for the sake of appearance if a business asked me to go elsewhere I would. However ASSUMING Toby's version is complete he was asking a valid question off the entire mall or out of sight and the they guy assholed him.

Toby can you confirm? If they are assholing people asking valid questions my money wont be spent there any longer