In what condition do you carry your 1911 in?
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Ballistic Therapy
Member
Not sure what the numbers are but I carry mine with a full magazine , one in the chamber , hammer back , safety on and in a good holster.
Now before I start in on this, be advised there are 5 conditions to carry the 1911 condition 0,1,2,3 or 4. I'm not here to tell you how to carry yours, so don't tell me how to carry mine. Just wanted to see how people here in AZ carry theirs.
So for everyone who would like to know what the conditions of readiness for the 1911 are? They are the following.
The Conditions of Readiness
The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the “Condition” system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. They are:
Condition 0 – A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 – Also known as “cocked and locked,” means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 – A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 – The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 – The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
The mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don’t understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.
Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.
Condition Three adds a degree of “insurance” against an accidental discharge since there is no round in the chamber. To bring the gun into action from the holster, the pistol must be drawn and the slide racked as the pistol is brought to bear on the target. This draw is usually called “the Israeli draw” since it was taught by Israeli security and defense forces. Some of the real expert trainers can do an Israeli draw faster than most of us can do a simple draw, but for most of us, the Israeli draw adds a degree of complexity, an extra step, and an opening for mistakes in the process of getting the front sight onto the target.
Using the “half-cock” as a safety
The half-cock notch on the M1911 is really intended as a “fail-safe” and is not recommended as a safety. However, it has been used as a mode of carry. From Dale Ireland comes this interesting piece of service history from WWII:
When the hammer is pulled back just a few millimeters it “half cocks” and pulling the trigger will not fire the gun [on genuine mil-spec G.I. pistols]. I imagine this is an unsafe and not a recommended safety position. The reason I bring it up however is that it was a commonly used position especially by left-handers in WWII. My father carried his 1911 (not A1) to Eniwetok, Leyte, first wave at Luzon, the battle inside Intramuros, and until he was finally shot near Ipo dam. He tells me that he regularly used the half cocked safety position especially at night and patrolling because bringing the weapon to the full cocked position from the half cocked created much less noise and he was left handed so he couldn’t use the thumb safety effectively. He said using the half cocked position was all about noise reduction for lefties while maintaining a small amount of safety that could quickly be released.
Again, the half-cock is intended as a fail-safe in the event that the sear hooks were to fail, and it is not recommended as a mode of carry. It should also be noted that on guns with “Series 80” type hammers, the hammer will fall from half-cock when the trigger is pulled. This would include guns from Springfield Armory and modern production Colts. But, if you happen to be a south paw and find yourself in the jungle with a G.I. M1911A1 and surrounded by enemy troops, the half-cock might be an option.
For more detailed discussion of the safety and internal functions of the M1911, see “Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous?”
Now in condition 0 what was said about the safety is half true. There are 2 built in safeties in the 1911. Grip and thumb safety. When done shooting and you have a loaded gun, you put the weapon on safe before putting it back into the holster. Ounce in the holster you flick the thumb safety off. With out the back strap engaged the weapon will not fire. Now here is something to think about. Back in the days of cops and robbers, some use to pin their grip safety like Col. Copper and others to draw and get bullets on target faster. How it was explained to me was, sometimes if you are in a fight with someone ( hand to hand) you might not be able to get you hand to engage the back strap safety enough to take the weapon off safe.
So for everyone who would like to know what the conditions of readiness for the 1911 are? They are the following.
The Conditions of Readiness
The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the “Condition” system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. They are:
Condition 0 – A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 – Also known as “cocked and locked,” means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 – A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 – The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 – The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
The mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don’t understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.
Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.
Condition Three adds a degree of “insurance” against an accidental discharge since there is no round in the chamber. To bring the gun into action from the holster, the pistol must be drawn and the slide racked as the pistol is brought to bear on the target. This draw is usually called “the Israeli draw” since it was taught by Israeli security and defense forces. Some of the real expert trainers can do an Israeli draw faster than most of us can do a simple draw, but for most of us, the Israeli draw adds a degree of complexity, an extra step, and an opening for mistakes in the process of getting the front sight onto the target.
Using the “half-cock” as a safety
The half-cock notch on the M1911 is really intended as a “fail-safe” and is not recommended as a safety. However, it has been used as a mode of carry. From Dale Ireland comes this interesting piece of service history from WWII:
When the hammer is pulled back just a few millimeters it “half cocks” and pulling the trigger will not fire the gun [on genuine mil-spec G.I. pistols]. I imagine this is an unsafe and not a recommended safety position. The reason I bring it up however is that it was a commonly used position especially by left-handers in WWII. My father carried his 1911 (not A1) to Eniwetok, Leyte, first wave at Luzon, the battle inside Intramuros, and until he was finally shot near Ipo dam. He tells me that he regularly used the half cocked safety position especially at night and patrolling because bringing the weapon to the full cocked position from the half cocked created much less noise and he was left handed so he couldn’t use the thumb safety effectively. He said using the half cocked position was all about noise reduction for lefties while maintaining a small amount of safety that could quickly be released.
Again, the half-cock is intended as a fail-safe in the event that the sear hooks were to fail, and it is not recommended as a mode of carry. It should also be noted that on guns with “Series 80” type hammers, the hammer will fall from half-cock when the trigger is pulled. This would include guns from Springfield Armory and modern production Colts. But, if you happen to be a south paw and find yourself in the jungle with a G.I. M1911A1 and surrounded by enemy troops, the half-cock might be an option.
For more detailed discussion of the safety and internal functions of the M1911, see “Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous?”
Now in condition 0 what was said about the safety is half true. There are 2 built in safeties in the 1911. Grip and thumb safety. When done shooting and you have a loaded gun, you put the weapon on safe before putting it back into the holster. Ounce in the holster you flick the thumb safety off. With out the back strap engaged the weapon will not fire. Now here is something to think about. Back in the days of cops and robbers, some use to pin their grip safety like Col. Copper and others to draw and get bullets on target faster. How it was explained to me was, sometimes if you are in a fight with someone ( hand to hand) you might not be able to get you hand to engage the back strap safety enough to take the weapon off safe.
I don't usually carry a 1911 but when I do condition 1 is how I carry
WRMorrison
Member
Condition 1. I had a lady in a supermarket notice the hammer back and she said, "isn't that dangerous?!" I said, "I hope so, or else what's the point?"
-WRM
-WRM
WRMorrison said:
That's is exactly what people need to be educated on.
1 in chamber, hammer back safety on. My grip safety has been disabled. I can't stand that thing.
A_C Guy
Member
Condition 2
I seriously doubt that any civilian has been in a situation where the less than a second it takes to cock the weapon has caused or would cause a change in the outcome of the conflict.
The Israel draw is a good alternative I think I'll try that.
I don't like #1 because all metal springs fatigue. Leaving a spring compressed for weeks or months or even years will weaken the spring and can cause an FTF
The point about getting the front sight on target is overblown. If a civilian is in a scenario where he/she has to draw and fire, the target will be close enough that instinctive point shooting is all that is needed. I proved that to my sons years ago when teaching them to shoot air soft pistols. A competnet shooter can hit a person at 15 feet shooting from the hip if need be. If your target is 25 feet away and you need to use your sights, you will have a difficult time explaining why you needed to shoot in self defense. There may be that once in a lifetime event where you pull up to the bank just as the robbers are exiting and you choose to engage them, but if you are aware enough of that situation to draw your weapon and engage, you will have adequate time to go from condition 2 or 3 to firing the weapon.
I seriously doubt that any civilian has been in a situation where the less than a second it takes to cock the weapon has caused or would cause a change in the outcome of the conflict.
The Israel draw is a good alternative I think I'll try that.
I don't like #1 because all metal springs fatigue. Leaving a spring compressed for weeks or months or even years will weaken the spring and can cause an FTF
The point about getting the front sight on target is overblown. If a civilian is in a scenario where he/she has to draw and fire, the target will be close enough that instinctive point shooting is all that is needed. I proved that to my sons years ago when teaching them to shoot air soft pistols. A competnet shooter can hit a person at 15 feet shooting from the hip if need be. If your target is 25 feet away and you need to use your sights, you will have a difficult time explaining why you needed to shoot in self defense. There may be that once in a lifetime event where you pull up to the bank just as the robbers are exiting and you choose to engage them, but if you are aware enough of that situation to draw your weapon and engage, you will have adequate time to go from condition 2 or 3 to firing the weapon.
A_C Guy
Member
Not a valid comparison. An accident isn't a premeditated action. Drawing your weapon is a conscious premeditated deliberate action.delta6 said:
deserttrans
Member
Condition #1
A_C Guy said:
Neither is an active confrontation...if you actually think...I mean really think your gunna draw your gun in a premeditated deliberate action... you/we should all be smart enough not to leave your house. You actually want to drive to an armed confrontation?...to consciously premeditate a deliberate draw.
If you have ever been in an active confrontation you would realize it does not usually work out that way...Just sayin'.
AZ Husker
Member
Always 1.
shooter444
Member
Don't have a true, blue 1911 anymore, but I cut my semi-auto pistol carrying teeth on them for my first couple decades.
Condition 1, period!
Condition 1, period!
