ID requirement

[knockonit]

aw tuesday entertainment. at its best.

thanks
Rj

 

[Ranger1]

What, you really think your smart ass remark about "getting off free and clear"
wasn't taken the way you intended? Sorry, everyone isn't as stupid as you and that idiot old troll you are taking over for!

You have graduated to my 'IGNORE LIST' user control panel option. But don't fret, you're in good company, that other Cali brained idiot troll is there and will entertain you, I'm sure!


YOU'RE GONE!!!

Troll, that's funny. I just putting up the same old Sh$t you guys are. Grow a set of bal/s

 

[harleypower69]

shooter444

Welcome to the Ignore Club, we fellow members know we can't fix stupid even with duct tape.
Good move blocking Ranger and steve, a hungry troll will move on.

 

[Ranger1]

A hungry will I won't hehehehehehe

 

[shooter444]

shooter444

Welcome to the Ignore Club, we fellow members know we can't fix stupid even with duct tape.
Good move blocking Ranger and steve, a hungry troll will move on.

If you didn't remind me of the option, I would have never remembered, thanks!!!

 

[TheAccountant]

Sure. In Arizona you're okay as long as you didn't knowingly sell a gun to a prohibited purchaser. So, a self proclaimed expert (there are plenty in the gun world) thinks the documentation is okay, so he's in the clear and he didn't KNOWINGLY sell the gun to a prohibited possessor in spite of the fact that he's an incompetent expert (there's no law against that).

Ahhh, but, could validating a buyers credentials, and thereby judging him to be a valid/legal purchaser/possessor, yet, eventually finding out he wasn't, make a seller liable for his/her wrong judgement? Especially after the illegal possessor commits a crime with the purchase?

I can foresee a prosecutor's cross-examination of a seller being, "Well, if you did not know all along that the buyer was NOT PROHIBITED from purchase, WHY did you demand documentation?" Obviously you had concerns for the buyers legality, or you wouldn't have asked for documentation?

In other words, by merely taking on the legal responsibility to judge a buyer's legal possession status, it could put the seller in jeopardy of being responsible for his/her judgement.

Where as, if NO DOCUMENTATION JUDGEMENT is made, the seller can simply fall back with the defense that under Arizona LEGAL STATE LEGISLATION FIREARM PRIVATE SALE PROTECTION LAW, of, he/she seller was UNAWARE the buyer was a prohibited possessor, period.

Which would force the burden of proof of an illegal sale to a prohibited possessor, AKA, that the seller DID HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE BUYERS ILLEGAL STATUS, to fall upon the prosecution.

All this legal action, could be avoided, imo, if the seller chose NOT to become a document validating expert, and just make the sale within state law requirement, ONLY!

And thereby, remain lawfully protected for having no prior knowledge of buyer's legal, or illegal, possession status.

Hence, as long as there is no proof of seller's prior knowledge to be found concerning the buyer's possession status, which would be the absolute case in selling to a complete stranger, no conviction for an illegal sale to a prohibited possessor could be possible.

YES?......................... No?

Strictly from a cut and dry legal position, of course.

Some people think just because they reviewed a buyer's paper work, they fall under some sort of fantasy contrived legal protection they have created in their own little mind!

Bottom line, gentlemen and ladies, no amount of paper work can protect you from a sale with prior knowledge of the buyers illegal status. And NO LACK of paper work should cause a court action against any seller in Az. for an illegal sale to a prohibited possessor without prior knowledge of buyer's status.

I'm not following. A felon can have an Arizona DL the same as anyone else, so how exactly is asking to see an AZ DL an examination of a person's status as a prohibited possessor? In fact, I don't think there's a single piece of documentation out there that a felon absolutely could not be in possession of, so I don't know how asking for any sort of documentation could be construed as a background check.

Also, a person making a good faith effort to comply with the law will never be held in a lower regard than a person who makes no effort. Why? Because culpable mental states (i.e. knowingly) are based on a reasonable person, not the individual person, and it's assumed a reasonable person would make an effort to follow the law. If our legal system wasn't constructed that way, convictions for "knowingly" committing a crime could be easily avoided with the tactics you suggested.

The likely scenario in your aggressive prosecutor example would be to demonstrate all of the things you didn't do that a reasonable person would have, and then make the argument that if you had done more, you would have known they were a prohibited.

 

[Ranger1]

I just like to see a ID or CCW. That's all. Just makes me feel good about the transaction. If I thought it was a bad sale it wouldn't happen.

 

[LuckyLeaky]

I have no problem letting someone see my CCW
Taking a picture of my drivers license... yah that’s not going to happen...
Luckily I only sell to people I know.... only had it backfire on me once...

 

[shooter444]

Agreed, I often offer info that I have a valid Az. DL & Az. CWP & expired deputy sheriff pic ID, when I inquire about a sale I am interested in. As I have said, I feel it can relieve some anxiety I feel the seller may have, during preliminary correspondences. And it usually does! I seem to encounter a lot of first time sellers.

And, as you stated, taking my personal info down ain't gon'na happen, either!

Ads with a long list of ID requirements... WITH ... "sign a bill of sale", I just don't bother inquiring into,... never,... NOT ONE!!!

 

[LuckyLeaky]

Yeah never cared for the bill of sale either... only ever did one and I knew the guy..pretty much the only reason I did it

 

[Flash]

You knew him pretty well and he still wanted a BOS?

I hope you don't consider him a friend.

 

[Crippledtrigger]

I've taken a pic of the name and state only on a driver's license once. Covered the pic address and other particulars.

IIRC it was a pretty big multigun trade with a brand new member on the former site. 3 or 4 grand in guns changing hands and he was new with no feedback and still had out of state plates on his car so I asked to verify residence as it was handguns and ARs. Handguns being the issue for residency. So I covered the face and address and just clicked away with the name and state part.

If he didnt have out of state plates I wouldn't have cared.

 

[LuckyLeaky]

You knew him pretty well and he still wanted a BOS?

I hope you don't consider him a friend.

Yah he is a good guy... just likes to be overly cautious...didn’t mind doing it for him.... would never do it for anyone else

 

[Ranger1]

You knew him pretty well and he still wanted a BOS?

I hope you don't consider him a friend.

Yah he is a good guy... just likes to be overly cautious...didn’t mind doing it for him.... would never do it for anyone else

Do better

 

[Flash]

You knew him pretty well and he still wanted a BOS?

I hope you don't consider him a friend.

Yah he is a good guy... just likes to be overly cautious...didn’t mind doing it for him.... would never do it for anyone else

Be aware that the only possible reason to have a BOS is to be able to drop a dime on you some day.

 

[shooter444]

Be aware that the only possible reason to have a BOS is to be able to drop a dime on you some day.

Exactly,... but if it is a piece you originally bought, or bought from someone you know originally bought it,... not much to worry about.

BUT,... if it is a piece you got from a internet/street flipper, who has no clue if it is hot when he sold it on forward,... your memory of who the flipper was, just may be challenged some day.

Personally, I would be concerned more about a hot weapon purchase, which is a non existent bird in my world, so far ray: ,... than selling to a prohibited possessor.

 

[knockonit]

talk about beat a dead horse, boy howdy

 

[shooter444]

:lol: Yeah, getting kind'a tired,.... isn't it. :lol:

 

[Bradshaw]

There is the higher educational opportunity called "Fake IDs for the gun show loophole seller" and the internal ATF handbooks "Are they really from Mexico" and "Staying off of the congressional oversight radar". All valuable resources for sure but my favorite has to be "We dont register s*** in AZ" and the sequel "Except for s*** with engines motors or hulls and s*** that can carry you or s*** with engines motors or hulls or with a Tax Stamp".

+1

Fixed it for ya.

Carry on