Hunting AZ, typical shot range and Leupold VX- 2 3x9

[kmj831]

Hey everyone, I recently bought a rifle that came with a Leupold VX-2 3-9x50mm. Never used one before, and as I've said in other posts, haven't hunted AZ yet (been here 13 years now, just haven't really hunted since getting married and having kids).

Anyways, it seems like a good scope,I'd hunt with this scope in Montana no prob. I mean sure you can glass and take long shots with magnums in MT if you want, but I killed most deer as a kid from 75 -200 yards than anything. Stalking is how i was taught to hunt. Only a couple of hunts led to shots on the 400+yd range.

But it just got me wondering, what kind of ranges are typical here for Couse deer and Elk? What magnification range are people hunting with here?

 

[XJThrottle]

You will not likely take a shot in those ranges. Most people around here hunt with large calibers and magnums because you are going to be sending it a long way, not because you're taking down and elephant...

My 300WM is zero'd at 200yd and has 12x glass.

 

[AZ_Five56]

I haven't hunted big game in many years, but when I did I had a 3-9 or 3-12 scope. Something like that should do you just fine. I want to get back into hunting, and I've been thinking about what range I feel like I can take an ethical shot. I think figuring that out will give you your answer, and that will be tied to what caliber you're hunting with, and your level of accuracy.

 

[Suck My Glock]

I haven't hunted in a long time either, but I used to go after elk and deer every year.

The topography here is so varied that it is impossible to truly say what your average shot will be unless one knows the hunt area first. Also, the time of year (spring vs. fall hunts) and tactics will also cause it to vary.

Unless you're going to go after antelope, I really don't think the flat-shooting magnums are required. Very few elk I have ever hunted exposed themselves out on open grassland, and same for deer. They prefer the denseness of the forest, and the denser the better. In fact, I always preferred to hunt elk in old burn areas about 10 to 15 years old because they preferred to inhabit there. Tromping through the packed quakey aspens and oaks made sneaking up on them bedded down there impossible, which is why they loved it. But if you found a recently used bedding area in a dense patch, that's where I would hole up and wait to ambush them. Those were usually shots of under 50 yards and no optics were needed.

On the other side of the spectrum, I once hunted whitetail down in the Chiricauas near the border, and that looked like it might require something with laser trajectory because the views were so far and open. But as it was, the one I jumped up on came out from a tree at only 75 yards or so.

So in my opinion, in this state, there is nothing that can't be dealt with if you have just a good ol' basic .30-06 or .308! And I'd select a 3x9 that has excellent light gathering capability for those dusk and twilight times when the animals are most active.

 

[kmj831]

Good info guys. I guess I should have pointed out, the scope is mated to a rifle chambered in 7mm-08. A round I used for both deer and Elk as a kid. Had 7mm mag for east side (more open range) hunting.

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

I have hunted everything you can legally hunt in this state ( excluding Bighorn ).
I only hunt Whitetail now.
I have used scopes from 4X to 3X9.
Personally I like 6X when I hunt.
For Whitetail I would say the average shot is right around 300 yards.
I am confident shooting at that range, I don't like to shoot much farther than that.
You don't need a fancy rifle or a fancy scope to hunt.
If you can't make the shot , there will always be another one.

Over the years I have heard lots of people say they shoot 600 yards and beyond , only take neck shots , shoot running deer and on and on , but I have also seen these same people wound more deer than they have ever killed.

 

[Vinnie B]

Your scope and rifle in 7mm-08 will do just fine for you. It depends on the unit you are hunting and more than that, what area of each unit you are hunting. Some places its 500 yards plus across the canyon but that is the only good vantage spot to see the animal. Then a few miles away its more rolling hills and closer shots are easier.
You don't need all the fancy stuff to have a good time and go hunt and be successful. I personally would rather hunt with your gun setup and have a decent set of binos and tripod to help me find the animals.

Over the years I have heard lots of people say they shoot 600 yards and beyond , only take neck shots , shoot running deer and on and on , but I have also seen these same people wound more deer than they have ever killed.

I think we know the same people hahaha. I am sure some of the stories just make you shake your head.

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

I agree with the Binos part.
A good set of binoculars and a tripod are more important than the scope.
You will spend hours looking through your binoculars and only a few minutes ( if that ) looking through your scope.
I am not saying to skimp on a scope , but definitely don't skimp on the binoculars.

 

[redj]

You do need a good scope , but it doesn't have to be a high powered scope.
Any good 3-9 will work fine for anything in Arizona.
There are 1000's of dear and elk out there pushing up daisies from being shot from a rifle with a 4X scope on them.
Years ago 4X scopes were very common all over the US.
Now days hunters think they need high powered scopes. Especially the younger crowd.
You can buy all the gadgets you want , but nothing can replace experience and time in the field.

 

[kmj831]

Good info and suggestions, thanks everyone. So what magnification range are we talking for binoculars? Any specific features that are essential? And with regards to tripod, we're talking tripods mounted to the forend of the stalk, correct?

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

The tripods we're talking about are for the binoculars.
When you spend hours at a time looking through binoculars , you need a good tripod.
I would suggest nothing less than a good pair of 10X50's.
If you are hunting thick forest then a pair of 8X30's would be fine.
They need to be a good pair though. Looking through cheap binoculars will do nothing but give you headaches after awhile.
All my binoculars are Swarovski. They are expensive , but if you plan on hunting for years to come they will be worth the money.

 

[kmj831]

Hot damn a nice pair of binos are expensive. I found some swarovski demos on a few sights for a reduced amount, but they're still spendy.

Can something like a Vortex set get the job done reasonably? It seems like most people feel the substantive difference between something like Vortext and the Swaro's or similar is light gathering at dawn and dusk.

Oh one other question, when do you guys choose a spotting scope over binos?

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

When it comes to glass be it binoculars or scopes you get what you pay for.
Lots of people like Vortex. I am not a fan myself.

As far as a spotting scope goes.
I use mine to see where my bullets are hitting when I sight in my rifle.
I have never needed one when hunting.
I am sure you will will get conflicting opinions. Everybody has one.

 

[TheAccountant]

Vortex are fine as long as you get at least the Viper HDs in a 10x50. I think the Kaibabs are nice, but I preferred the older 15x over the newer 18x. The Razors are nice glass as well.

I haven't looked through them personally, but have heard some good reviews on the Bushnell Forge 15x lately too, which are a little more budget friendly. Midway will periodically have sales of 40-50% off Bushnell, so just wait for that if you go that route.

It might just be my eyes, but I like to keep the binos and scope at about the same power and use 15x binos. Picking up a Coues 400-500 yards away is tough, and I like to see the same picture when I look through the scope as I saw looking through binos, so the top end on my hunting scopes are at least 15x.

As for a spotting scope, it's one of those good ideas that isn't very good. It serves a purpose, but its purpose is pretty limited for most people. Take whatever you were going to spend on that and put it towards binos.

No matter what you end up with, plan on spending a couple weekends before your hunt just out glassing so your eyes get used to picking up those damn things. They don't call them grey ghosts for nothing.

 

[kmj831]

Finding Vortex Diamond HDs 15x56 in the $300-400 range. Viper 12x50 for $500ish. Saw kiababs for $700, but they went quick.

Tripod suggestions? Sorry for the inane questions, trying to shorten my research and learning curve.

 

[Lobo2087]

You can often find good tripods at goodwill. If you are not in a hurry i have 4 i am letting someone look at to see if he wants one. You can do the same once he has his turn if you wish

 

[Vinnie B]

I can't really help with any of the bino's except Zeiss and Swarovski as that's all I have now. Well, I do have a cheap $200 set of Vortex under my seat all the time and while they aren't too bad I wouldn't want to look through them all day. What I found before I got really nice binos is while I could see okay through the other ones my eyes got fatigued alot faster and I wouldn't glass as long. Then when I got my first set of Swaro's I could glass longer and I definitely started seeing more animals because I could pick the brush apart and see an ear or a face as opposed to looking for a complete silhouette. Early morning and late evening glassing is better IMO with the better glass, they seem to gather more light and are more crisp in those hours.

The first couple times I took the new wife scouting with us I set her up with the cheaper binos on a tripod. When I would find something I'd say come her and look, then I would hear I need binos like yours because I can't see near as well through mine. I'd go over and put her binos on the animal and she was right that there was no comparison in the two. But I would hope not as you are comparing $200 binos to 2k binos

WIth all that said, buy what you can afford and go have fun. If you are going to go every year and help others or hunt yourself, in the long run you will be happy you spent the money. If you aren't going to go much except when you draw a tag by chance then spend less and you may not regret it.

 

[TheAccountant]

Finding Vortex Diamond HDs 15x56 in the $300-400 range. Viper 12x50 for $500ish. Saw kiababs for $700, but they went quick.

Tripod suggestions? Sorry for the inane questions, trying to shorten my research and learning curve.

The Diamondbacks are nice to have in a 10x in a chest pouch to spot check, but I wouldn't want anything in that line as my main pair to glass hillsides with for hours a day. Those Viper 12x wouldn't be bad to start with. They won't be the limiting factor in your first couple hunts, and if you decide you like it then you can transition those to your chest pouch and get something a little bigger as your main glass.

Tripods are another area you can spend anywhere from $40 to $2k. Figure out which style head you like. I prefer a pan/tilt over the ball for glassing just because it keeps me on a more methodical pattern, but if I'm shooting off a tripod then I prefer the ball head. Vanguard and Manfrotto aren't bad places to start. Just watch the weight on them.

Don't be afraid to check the classifieds on national boards. I've seen some binos in your range pop up on sniper's hide in the last few weeks. Nice thing about buying Vortex used is their warranty. If there's an issue just send it in and they'll make it like new.

 

[kmj831]

Helpful stuff guys. Cost is always a consideration, it's a matter of being sure we're committed (and at what level) and then pacing myself. I've got four sons, and we (wife included) mountain bike, BMX, ride dirt bikes, and do the grappling/kick boxing thing. So our hobbies are expensive already, and whatever sports we pick up we tend to do as a family. I really enjoyed hunting as a kid, but it was a little simpler (at least in terms of gear needed) in NW Montana than it seems to be here, so trying to get my head around it.

The goal is to get started in a way that isn't overkill, but will allow us to have fun. The Oldest two boys are 11 and 9. They really want to get out and start calling coyotes ASAP, and that seems like one way to start teaching them about being quiet in the forest, paying attention to whether or not they are up or down wind, being patient, learning to shoot, etc.

So, I guess I'm looking to pick up a couple versatile rifles/scope combos and a decent pair of Binos that we can use for everything from rabbits and Coyotes to deer and maybe Elk, Javelina, whatever. My 11, 9 and 6 year old have been practicing with the hand calls we bought, trying to get their "distressed rabbit" on point. Ha!

Question; it seems the general consensus is that 10x is general as high a magnification as you want to go with binos that will be used as handhelds as well as on a bipod. 12x really being the limit if you have steady hands. Thoughts on that?

 

[TheAccountant]

I don't think your 7-08 would be bad for them to learn on. If you're trying to keep costs down, maybe share a rifle for now. The odds you're going to double up on bucks with boys that age are pretty slim, and it might get them to hunt as a team if there's only one shooter. I think putting that money towards another pair of binos to have another set of eyes out there would be more beneficial anyway.

My responses were in terms of Coues and my coyote hunting experience is limited so I'll let someone else give an opinion on that. You're gonna want a tripod for glassing Coues no matter how steady of a hand you have. The terrain is very repetitive, it's easy to get lost when you're staring at hillsides for hours, and even easier to lose them after you finally pick one up. You don't have to go out and buy some RRS thing, but just get something simple that will give you a fighting chance.