First and foremost I am a very pro second amendment. I find myself in a bit of a dilemma. Due to this "pandemic" gun ownership has risen drastically. There are several people that I know that have recently made gun purchases but I know these people should not own firearms. I am sure that we all know or have seen gun owners that should not own firearms because they lack certain "qualities" to put it nicely. Should there be mandatory classes or training certificates before you can purchase? I am finding myself more and more thinking that it should be put in place.
Gun ownership
- Thread starter Wrenchman
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"Shall not be infringed"...
I do suggest to any new gun owners I run into to do themselves a favor, and at least take an introductory class.
I do suggest to any new gun owners I run into to do themselves a favor, and at least take an introductory class.
Interesting that you use that term. A lot of gun owners use that to justify everything. If we were all to just use that term then it should be applied to everyone. Even felons. They dod their time but still cant purchase. How about people that are on watchlist? If you use that phrase in its meaning then no one should ever be denied firearm ownership under any circumstance. Shall not be infringed right?
zonie77
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I don't want a mandatory class because it could be too easily abused. I definitely agree that they should take an intro class and probably another (at least one) class. I was amazed how much I learned in certain classes and even an experienced gun owner gets rusty quickly. Another point is classes often have you do exercises that you never do on your own.
Do you feel capable of taking those new gun owners for a trip to the range? I always give them a "class" before the range so they know what to do when they get there.
Do you feel capable of taking those new gun owners for a trip to the range? I always give them a "class" before the range so they know what to do when they get there.
No to mandatory classes or particapation certificates for ownership.
Please define "certain "qualities"
I will add this though .. The indoor range I prefer as of late had a group of regulars that worked the counter. I really enjoy regular anything now a day and I was dismayed to see all new young faces. When I spotted one of the old crew I told him .. "oh shit .. I thought you were fired or something, havent seen you in months"
Turns out ... the store was cleaned out of guns like most places but .. there was such a giant uptick in people taking classes that all the staff "qualified" to give instruction were on the lanes doing it and they hired new kids to work the counters.
So .. the training you are looking for was self regulating as most things should be
Please define "certain "qualities"
I will add this though .. The indoor range I prefer as of late had a group of regulars that worked the counter. I really enjoy regular anything now a day and I was dismayed to see all new young faces. When I spotted one of the old crew I told him .. "oh shit .. I thought you were fired or something, havent seen you in months"
Turns out ... the store was cleaned out of guns like most places but .. there was such a giant uptick in people taking classes that all the staff "qualified" to give instruction were on the lanes doing it and they hired new kids to work the counters.
So .. the training you are looking for was self regulating as most things should be
I currently make most of my decisions upon the thought of "where does it end" when it comes to new laws. I have taken several people to the range and showed them the basics and always encourage them to take more classes and read. The qualities I was I referring to were mostly common sense and knowledge. I dont want to deny anyone a constitutional right, I just find myself pondering about it.
First off not a troll. Lived her in Arizona for over 20 years. I work for a school district and my wife works for PCSO. We were both members of AZCDL. Now if you want to question my loyalty to the 2A why dont you ask me direct questions and check me out. I joined this group on a reccomendation from a friend that I did have this conversation with. This post was not political by any means. It was just a basic question and I asked for thoughts. This is supposed to be a venue for actual thoughts and dialogue on issues.
it always starts with a little concern and grows to I"m in charge and decide who, what and how"
not infringed, words to live by, or die by,
lack of skill or knowledge of use of purchases by newbies is something they have to contend with, they will probably watch some show on tv and know all there is about gats,
the smart ones will reach out to skilled or knowledgable individuals or groups to enhance their knowledge, but you can't fix the stupid ones, they are the ones that make "us" gun folks look stupid, even though we arent, just as the world turns.
A group i shoot with has always made it their biz to make sure anyone around us, not handling a unit properly is advised of such, and offer to explain the rules so to speak.
perhaps these that you think "shouldn't have guns' would benefit from ''your'' knowledge and suggestions.
and if you've done so already, well then, you did your best.
jmo of all above.
if you haven't made an effort, why come here and ask.....................
not infringed, words to live by, or die by,
lack of skill or knowledge of use of purchases by newbies is something they have to contend with, they will probably watch some show on tv and know all there is about gats,
the smart ones will reach out to skilled or knowledgable individuals or groups to enhance their knowledge, but you can't fix the stupid ones, they are the ones that make "us" gun folks look stupid, even though we arent, just as the world turns.
A group i shoot with has always made it their biz to make sure anyone around us, not handling a unit properly is advised of such, and offer to explain the rules so to speak.
perhaps these that you think "shouldn't have guns' would benefit from ''your'' knowledge and suggestions.
and if you've done so already, well then, you did your best.
jmo of all above.
if you haven't made an effort, why come here and ask.....................
Az1182 you are a moron. You just had to go straight to attacking. There are a lot of gun owners who are the fence about this issue and others. You are the type of people that push people the other way. I am not advocating anything. Maybe I didnt follow your proper protocol. This issue had been nagging me for quite some time. After discussing it with friends I was told to pose the question here.
What is it you think they need or what will be imparted through the "more classes?"
One thing I used to tell new employees who worked under me was .. "I can teach you things you may not currently have the skills or knowledge of but I cant and wont teach you the things your mom or dad should have"
I have yet to see a class offered in any school that teaches common sense. I wish there were but I have seen many a course curriculum and never spotted it.
How do you see an assessment of "common sense necessary to own a firearm" playing out. What is the evaluation procedure and who makes the determination?
Are the classes supposed to teach better accuracy, gun handling, gun law, when is a gun in self defense justified by law what are the consequences of using a gun in a violent encounter?
If you are in AZ for any length of time then you know we had a CCW course. You didn't need it to OWN a gun but you did need it to carry concealed. When I came out here it was a requirement and I and my wife took the course. It was some 8 hours or more.
Except for gathering our fingerprints ... very little actual knowledge was transferred.
If the people you are referring to are friends of yours .. and I have a very very small circle of people I associate with and would choose not to communicate with people who lack common sense then ... buy them a copy of this
The Arizona Gun Owners Guide by Alan Korwin
I still have my copy from 15 or so years ago.
Wrenchman said:
Yes but you were the first one that resorted to name calling when defending a position. I hope your position in the education system doesnt involve teaching children. You quickly devolved from making a good well thought argument to belligerence .... are you SURE you should own a gun?
Boriqua. As far as classes go I had thought something more like a maintenance and safety class? When I applied for my first deer tag I had to go through hunters safety. I find it interesting that made a statement concerning not teaching what mom or dad is supposed to. I was lucky to grow up in a family of avid gun owners and hunters. Some were not as lucky.
Wrenchman said:
Felons have had those rights removed because of criminal activity. Someone on a watchlist might be denied by the FBI.
You're original statement was about the average Joe. Not the same.
Wrenchman said:
A persons parents or other guardians were supposed to teach young charges "common Sense" and a value system that works in a group. I wasn't about to teach employees to show up on time, how to work and what was expected when you had a job.
In the same way that new languages are more difficult to pick up as an adult .. new attitudes, behavior and yes Common sense are also harder to come by as a grown person.It happens .. but it usually comes with bruises and bad experience.
Having said that I will not assume that 99% of the people who choose to own guns lacks the necessary sense to own one and will not throw them under the bus for the 1% that might not and any institutionalized requirements just lead to a happy few making the rules for all and that can never happen in a "free" country.
Boriqua I think that is probably the best answer I have heard so far. I think that I am equating this more to the younger generation. I have also made the statement that I think there should be a mandatory class were they teach kids how to change a flat tire or other basic auto stuff. Mandatory classes is something that I am not advocating for as a requirement to own a gun but I have just found myself pondering more and more about.
Azfive56 I think most of us here have ran in to people that dont have the temperament or common sense. I have ran in to more than one of them at gun ranges. People that are careless, have little to no knowledge, even some that are reckless. It is those types of people that make me pose the mandatory class question.
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