Firearm hold/appeal

[delta6]

So,... Delta6,... this statement is incorrect?

"Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN. You still have to fill out the 4473, and it will be rejected without it."

Right?

Well..yes and no... kinda....
Let me clarify....
Yes, if you buy a gun from a dealer you have to fill out a 4473.
You have to undergo a NICS background check, except in AZ (maybe other states with this exemption), you can by-pass the NICS background check if you have a valid AZ CCW and you are an AZ resident.

To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a UPN, there is however a UPIN (line #9 on the 4473).
A UPIN is not necessary on the 4473 form, even if you have a UPIN.
No way to say that if you have a UPIN and you write it on the form or if you have a UPIN and you do not write it on the form, whether you will be approved or rejected.

Bottom line..Buy a gun from a dealer in AZ, you have to fill out a 4473. Present a valid AZ (in AZ) CCW and proof of AZ residence and no NICS check is performed. When no NICS check is performed, nothing is called in. When nothing is called in, no UPIN (even if present on the form) is relayed to the NICS examiner.

Just to be clear on the other points... a UPIN identifier is not necessary on a 4473 even if you undergo a NICS check. It is just an added identifier, much like your SSN# (SSN# is not necessary either, but at times can eliminate most delays). As I mentioned above 99+% of the population does not have one. I personally do not know of anyone who does have one. I do not have one nor does my wife have one and she buys guns regularly.

 

[shooter444]

Goth'cha,... if you have a Az. CWP, there is no NICS check,... no NICS check means, there is absolutely no need for a UPIN number !!!

Which leads me to believe,... the statement, " Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN ",... is false.

thank you

 

[delta6]

Goth'cha,... if you have a Az. CWP, there is no NICS check,... no NICS check means, there is absolutely no need for a UPIN number !!!

Which leads me to believe,... the statement, " Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN ",... is false.

thank you

shooter:

" Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN ",... is false.

Stated this way, as above, you are 100% correct.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Unless flat out denied, it's about 3 days and the gun can be picked up, unless NICS calls dealer back and gives them a denied status. Most people that get a hold will get it every time (especially when not providing your social security number on the form). CWP/CCW is best way around the hassle.

I'm new to AZ but I know in CA despite the State's DROS paperwork asking for SSN, that there is no place to enter that number when submitting the NICS request to the Feds. Is the AZ version of NICS different?

 

[jcbrown]

You do not need a UPN. Unless you have been denied. If you have been denied, it is because your name is now flagged to reject your purchase. If you wish to avoid the rejection, the UPN identifies you specifically.

Why was i denied - an individual in NY had the exact same name & DOB and committed a violent felony. When processed by the fabulous justice in New York, they did not enter his SSN in the system the ATF uses. So, if I try to buy a gun, it will be rejected. With the UPN, there is no issue.

 

[shooter444]

You do not need a UPN. Unless you have been denied. If you have been denied, it is because your name is now flagged to reject your purchase. If you wish to avoid the rejection, the UPN identifies you specifically.

Why was i denied - an individual in NY had the exact same name & DOB and committed a violent felony. When processed by the fabulous justice in New York, they did not enter his SSN in the system the ATF uses. So, if I try to buy a gun, it will be rejected. With the UPN, there is no issue.

Morn'n jcbrown,... now, you are almost perfectly understandable, to me.

The problem I had with your first post,...

jcbrown wrote: ↑August 28th, 2018, 4:29 pm
Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN. You still have to fill out the 4473, and it will be rejected without it. I've written my UPN on the back of my CCW so I have it when I buy.

..., was that you generalized and declared everyone with a "CCW" had to have a "UPN"
as well, to make a purchase. That just didn't fly for me.

Now, I see you are specifically referring to,...YOU,... not , everyone.

But, please help me out here, I am still a bit confused.

If you have a CWP why would you need to write your UPIN number on the back, when a Az. CWP will bypass the NICS check system. There won't be anyone checking your UPIN number when you use your Az CWP because there won't be anyone checking your Az. CWP purchase.

An Az. CWP automatically clears a buyer for purchase without a NICS check?

Confusing,... to say the least.

 

[Hansen]

CCW Applicants must:

- be a resident of this state or a United States citizen;

- be twenty-one years of age or older or is at least nineteen years of age and provides evidence of current military service or proof of honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States Armed Forces, United States Armed Forces Reserve or a State National Guard.

- not be under indictment for a felony offense;

- not be convicted of a felony offense, unless the conviction has been expunged, set aside, vacated or pardoned, or the individuals right to possess firearms has be restored AND the individual must not be a prohibited possessor under state or federal law.

- not suffer from mental illness and been adjudicated mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution;

- not be unlawfully present in the United States;

- complete a firearms safety training program pursuant to A.R.S. 13-3112.N.



Note: Persons who were born outside of the United States or one of its territories must send a copy of proof of citizenship or alien status. Any of the following documents are acceptable:

- Certificate of Naturalization
- Resident Alien Card
- Record of Birth Abroad to US citizens
- Record of Birth Abroad to Armed Forces Personnel
- US Passport

 

[Hansen]

If you have a CWP why would you need to write your UPIN number on the back, when a Az. CWP will bypass the NICS check system. There won't be anyone checking your UPIN number when you use your Az CWP because there won't be anyone checking your Az. CWP purchase.

I have never had to have A UPN sort of, They have always used the CCW # as the UPN. As it wasn't or ever been checked when I bought this way.

 

[delta6]

You do not need a UPN. Unless you have been denied. If you have been denied, it is because your name is now flagged to reject your purchase. If you wish to avoid the rejection, the UPN identifies you specifically.

Why was i denied - an individual in NY had the exact same name & DOB and committed a violent felony. When processed by the fabulous justice in New York, they did not enter his SSN in the system the ATF uses. So, if I try to buy a gun, it will be rejected. With the UPN, there is no issue.

What the heck is a UPN??????????????
Never heard of it.

 

[delta6]

.... paperwork asking for SSN, that there is no place to enter that number when submitting the NICS request to the Feds. Is the AZ version of NICS different?

It magically appears.....on the 4473... been there for decades and decades...

 

[Steve_In_29]

.... paperwork asking for SSN, that there is no place to enter that number when submitting the NICS request to the Feds. Is the AZ version of NICS different?

It magically appears.....on the 4473... been there for decades and decades...
4473 SSN #.jpg

Yes it is on the paper form but according to several FFl's here in CA there is no block to put it in when submitting the online NICS application.

 

[RandyTF]

Maybe I missed it trying to weed through all of the posts but finger prints are required to get a CCW permit. Wouldn't that be significant individual identification? Finger prints are considered unique to each of us. Not sure why God did that though! But he is pretty smart from what I've seen.

 

[deanq]

Maybe I missed it trying to weed through all of the posts but finger prints are required to get a CCW permit. Wouldn't that be significant individual identification? Finger prints are considered unique to each of us. Not sure why God did that though! But he is pretty smart from what I've seen.

Yes.
To summarize; With your CCW, no NICS is required. Fill out your 4473, pay your money, go home. It's that simple. Difficult for some to understand, but...some people are slower than others.

 

[shooter444]

Yes, RandyTF, that is correct, but, ... finger prints aren't required with every purchase like a name/ID, is.

Any claim that any ID, other than a proof of residence ID/ aka Az. DL, is needed with a Az. CWP to purchase a firearm in Arizona is incorrect.

Which is why this thread began to stink, to me, way back when! Like three day old fish!

 

[mallic]

Why on earth is this thread still going? We already gave the reasonable answer of "get your CWP and don't worry about NICS".

And just to reiterate, your UPIN or SS are not required after getting one.

 

[knockonit]

pretty sure this horse is kilt many times over.

 

[Racewin]

Sounds like he applied for a UPIN...a personal ID number given by the FBI (or ATF?) for this purpose. It's telling that an SSN isn't enough. I agree with others' suggestions to get a CWP.

 

[shooter444]

Sounds and smells like,... to me,... if this really has been going on for a year,... he obviously has done nothing, because this problem is still ongoing.

My guess is, he is a prohibited possessor,... but obviously, I have no proof!

 

[shooter444]

Sounds like he applied for a UPIN...a personal ID number given by the FBI (or ATF?) for this purpose. It's telling that an SSN isn't enough. I agree with others' suggestions to get a CWP.

_____________________________

Interestingly enough, I just picked up a piece through my local FF. It has been longer than I remember, because he has gone to TOUCH SCREEN COMPUTER on filling out the 4473, which is way above my pay scale. I don't get off the desert much, so please accept my apology if I am behind the times!

Annnd,... IT WAS NOT A FUN EXPERIENCE!!!

And, interestingly enough, the call for an UPIN number just happened to pop up on the 4473 form/screen for the first time, in my remembrance,... which he (my FFL) immediately told me " No need for that", since I had my CWP.

Then the section for a Social Security Number came up,.... which i just passed on by, without a hic-up from my FFL looking over my shoulder, just for assurance, since it was my first electronic submission, ever.

Sooo, my quandary is this,... since news of late about major computer companies having the ability to track, see, and, or, listen to everyone with a certain type of phone or computer,... what will keep certain Government employees from immediately accessing and acquiring 4473's now that they are being done on computers?

I, mean,... these transactions are suppose to be PRIVATE and NOT a FIREARM REGISTRATION,... RIGHT?
And they are suppose to be held ONLY by the FFL for so many years and then DESTROYED,... RIGHT?



(this is not exactly on topic,... but, it seems our OP has decided to let this tread die, for some odd reason, ... maybe this will give it a little more life)

 

[QuietM4]

The eCheck 4473 provides the FBI/NICS with the same information you provide the dealer when they manually call in the background check. The gun information is not provided during the background check, other than the type of firearm; handgun, long gun, or other (If you are buying a Ruger 10/22 s/n 123-456789, all the FBI/NICS knows is that you are buying a long gun). The background check information has always been entered into a computer by the NICS Operator, but I agree that a gun shop's computer system may be less secure than the FBI/NICS computer system. However, this could be said of any retail gun shop. For instance, I'm sure if someone wanted to hack into the computers of Sportsman's Warehouse, Bass Pro, Cabelas, etc, all that firearm purchase data would be available.

The firearms you buy are not "private" to law enforcement, they just aren't centrally stored in a database. If the ATF wants to know what guns you bought from Joe's Gun Shop, they just have go ask for the 4473.

4473 forms are held by the gun shop indefinitely, never destroyed. When the gun shop goes out of business, the 4473 forms are sent to the ATF.