Dig this Phoenix PD incident
- Thread starter pneuby
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I'm usually on the side of the officers when they get hammered in the media for roughing up a suspect. On this one I can't really go there - well for the stuff that happened after he was cuffed anyway...
* Pop out of the vehicle and put a bunch of bullets through him right after he shoots at you? Absolutely - I'm on your side... Meet deadly force with deadly force to end a threat...
* Get violent with him to dominate him while getting him into cuffs if he's non-compliant in the least or before you can confirm that he's not laying on top of his gun? Yup - no problem there either... He just shot at you - I'm not going to ask you to tiptoe around him.
* Muzzle punch him and stomp him while he's laying there cuffed? Yeah - nah - can't side with you on that one... Being a police officer is a job that requires you to deal with people who do horrible stuff and to maintain emotional control while dealing with them. I'm not saying that is easy - I'm just saying it's part of the job. My read on this is that the lead officer was seriously pissed off at being shot at (can't blame him - I would be too) and that he let his emotions dictate his actions (I CAN blame him for that - his job requires that he pull himself together when crazy stuff happens).
Now - what should happen to the officers? IMHO:
* Re the lead officer - If he has a solid record of being a good cop and just had a bad moment triggered by the reality that the knucklehead shot at him - well - I'd say there needs to be some administrative consequence, maybe some unpaid time off, and certainly some time with one of the head shrinkers to get to the place where folks are comfortable that he can do better to control his emotions / reactions the next time.
* If he's already been through that kind of stuff because he's got a history of over-reacting and getting violent with suspects who don't present any threat... well... then he probably shouldn't be a cop.
* Re the 2nd officer (the one reported as being on the force for less than a year - who I'm guessing might be rolling with his FTO) - he seemed to be "following along" - IMHO unless he is having a hard time succeeding in general - I'd make it a learning experience for him. I'd not generally expect a trainee to confront / go against their FTO.
Just my 2 cents...
* Pop out of the vehicle and put a bunch of bullets through him right after he shoots at you? Absolutely - I'm on your side... Meet deadly force with deadly force to end a threat...
* Get violent with him to dominate him while getting him into cuffs if he's non-compliant in the least or before you can confirm that he's not laying on top of his gun? Yup - no problem there either... He just shot at you - I'm not going to ask you to tiptoe around him.
* Muzzle punch him and stomp him while he's laying there cuffed? Yeah - nah - can't side with you on that one... Being a police officer is a job that requires you to deal with people who do horrible stuff and to maintain emotional control while dealing with them. I'm not saying that is easy - I'm just saying it's part of the job. My read on this is that the lead officer was seriously pissed off at being shot at (can't blame him - I would be too) and that he let his emotions dictate his actions (I CAN blame him for that - his job requires that he pull himself together when crazy stuff happens).
Now - what should happen to the officers? IMHO:
* Re the lead officer - If he has a solid record of being a good cop and just had a bad moment triggered by the reality that the knucklehead shot at him - well - I'd say there needs to be some administrative consequence, maybe some unpaid time off, and certainly some time with one of the head shrinkers to get to the place where folks are comfortable that he can do better to control his emotions / reactions the next time.
* If he's already been through that kind of stuff because he's got a history of over-reacting and getting violent with suspects who don't present any threat... well... then he probably shouldn't be a cop.
* Re the 2nd officer (the one reported as being on the force for less than a year - who I'm guessing might be rolling with his FTO) - he seemed to be "following along" - IMHO unless he is having a hard time succeeding in general - I'd make it a learning experience for him. I'd not generally expect a trainee to confront / go against their FTO.
Just my 2 cents...
As soon as the cuffs go on, physical force to subdue is no longer justified, IMO. Officer who put the cuffs on clearly sees there is no longer any threat from the suspect, as he turns his back on him. Second cop then kicks him...that's a no-no.
But, I also believe that stupid should hurt...suspect is incredibly lucky they didn't smoke him in the parking lot or when they entered the QT.
But, I also believe that stupid should hurt...suspect is incredibly lucky they didn't smoke him in the parking lot or when they entered the QT.
I think he earned a little stomping. They barely touched him. Little love tap with the muzzle I dont agree with only because of its possibility of having an ND and splattering the guys brains after he is down but .. he definitely earned a few bruises.
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