Cowitness Sight Question

[BigNate]

I just bought my first optic ready handgun (Walter PDP) and a Holosun 507C. I’m new to the pistol red dot world and will be learning as I go. The PDP uses “Glock compatible” sights. My understanding is that the factory sights are too short to cowitness through the RDS - so I’ll be replacing them. So - a couple of questions…

1) what is the conventional wisdom regarding night sights vs standard fo co-witness with the RDS.
2) tools for changing the sights - I see a rear sight press and a specialty tool for the front sight. What should I know in this space? I’ve not changed Glock style sights before - I can’t imagine that it’s rocket science - but I can imagine a scenario where it is a huge PITA. Is this DIYable - or will it have me breaking my vow to not swear like a sailor?

 

[QuietM4]

Changing Glock sights is pretty easy....if you have the correct tools. Those tools can be an expensive investment ($150+) for something you will most likely only use once or twice. I'd find a local gun shop (Scottsdale Gun Club, C2 Tactical, etc) that has the sights you want...AKA suppressor height iron sights...and let them swap the sights for you, which they will most likely do for free if you buy the sights from them.

I have seen people absolutely butcher their firearms trying to install sights without the right tools, or simply using a mallet and brass punch (which is a skill itself). Just have an experienced armorer do it for you...no sense in potentially putting a nice "idiot mark" on your new expensive pistol.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Changing Glock sights is pretty easy....if you have the correct tools. Those tools can be an expensive investment ($150+) for something you will most likely only use once or twice. I'd find a local gun shop (Scottsdale Gun Club, C2 Tactical, etc) that has the sights you want...AKA suppressor height iron sights...and let them swap the sights for you, which they will most likely do for free if you buy the sights from them.

I have seen people absolutely butcher their firearms trying to install sights without the right tools, or simply using a mallet and brass punch (which is a skill itself). Just have an experienced armorer do it for you...no sense in potentially putting a nice "idiot mark" on your new expensive pistol.

They really aren't that expensive. I put sights on many of mine with this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JYM9DPL/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B08JYM9DPL&pd_rd_w=cazLf&pf_rd_p=0c758152-61cd-452f-97a6-17f070f654b8&pd_rd_wg=G3UG5&pf_rd_r=JPBQ5AEX1032N7VZZZ4F&pd_rd_r=738929d7-8e5b-4fdf-84a6-98b15b99f92e&s=sporting-goods&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFaMU1GR0hGSzRBVkcmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwMzA5MDREUzBGTjZWWkM4OUQmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDYxMjgzMDE1Q0lNMVZQWTFJUkomd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

Or this




https://www.amazon.com/WIREGEAR-Heavy-Duty-Construction-Universal-Semi-Auto/dp/B09FLGFD35/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3UMQC8X92JFUQ&keywords=sight%2Bremoval%2Btool&qid=1649324675&sprefix=sight%2Bremoval%2Btool%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-1-spons&smid=A37UWA86KOH56N&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyWVE1VTZGN0MxRFhRJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTAxOTk1WjlXNVpTVEJVNFFaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2MzA3MTcxVFFZRzZITFNLNzBCJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[G34]

Cowitnessing defeats the purpose of a dot on a pistol.
If your on the west side I can put em on for you.

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Cowitnessing defeats the purpose of a dot on a pistol.
If your on the west side I can put em on for you.

And how on earth did you derive that idea? Much like having a cowitness on a rifle, if the batteries die, or the optic malfunctions, you have an alternative.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[G34]

many current methods of aiming are built into the housing of these optics. I encourage you to take a class designed for red dots. Many also use reference points like back plates as a means of aiming.

cowitness is an old way of training. some still use 1/3 but many are actually getting away from that nowadays.

when you crowd the optic FOV you become less target focused and more sight focused.

 

[BigNate]

Thanks gents...

[mention]kenpoprofessor[/mention] - the tool that you posted is the one I saw when looking for sights on Amazon. Sounds like it is doable with that tool - without huge risk to the gun. If I end up doing them I'll pick up one of those tools.

[mention]QuietM4[/mention] - Thanks much... agreed - no desire to ding up the gun. If the store will do it with purchase I'll probably go that route. If it's going to be more than buying the tool that Kenpo presented then I'll buy the tool...

[mention]G34[/mention] - so - you touched on the other side of the question - whether to do this at all. This will be a defensive carry gun - I have RDS on two long guns and these are set up to cowitness over the iron sights - so it is one or the other. The iron sights were "there" but not in play / not interfering with the RDS. This makes total sense to me. When I looked at one of the factory optic guns (Sig 320 with the Sig Romeo factory mounted) the cowitness of the sights with the dot seemed to clutter the sight picture. So on one hand you have the distraction of the iron sight (negative) on the other hand, if you don't put the tall sights on and the optic fails you're now just point shooting.

I agree - a class on shooting handguns with an RDS would be valuable. I'd thought I'd probably get to one after getting familiar with the gun.

 

[knockonit]

yeah, i'm waiting on a taller site for my canik, to co witness so to speak, while i did over come the lost red dot syndrone, it does help in getting on target at least for me, each individuals mileage will differ for sure, i have a half dozen or more with red/green dots, most have front sites visible thru dot, and i do shoot all of them reasonably well for an old guy.

try it, and if you no likey, well we all know how to fix that don't we,
Rj

 

[freefly]

what is the conventional wisdom regarding night sights vs standard fo co-witness with the RDS.

With an RDS, your irons are "back-up" only. As such, you really don't want them being prominent and/or distracting.

So when running a dot, it's usually best to stick with basic blacked-out irons that sit as low as possible in the optic window, while still being usable.

 

[BigNate]

what is the conventional wisdom regarding night sights vs standard fo co-witness with the RDS.

With an RDS, your irons are "back-up" only. As such, you really don't want them being prominent and/or distracting.

So when running a dot, it's usually best to stick with basic blacked-out irons that sit as low as possible in the optic window, while still being usable.

Thanks much - this makes sense.

 

[baja]

Easy to make a Glock front sight tool.
Get a nut driver of the correct size. You'll notice it won't grab the sight bolt, that's because the opening on the nut driver is slightly rounded.
Take said nut driver and grind/file it down to a nice sharp 90° angle. Voila, you now have a Glock front sight tool.

 

[delta6]

Easy to make a Glock front sight tool.
Get a nut driver of the correct size. You'll notice it won't grab the sight bolt, that's because the opening on the nut driver is slightly rounded.
Take said nut driver and grind/file it down to a nice sharp 90° angle. Voila, you now have a Glock front sight tool.

Great info :clap:

 

[BigNate]

As I read up on this topic I just could not get myself to the place where I was comfortable without having some sort of physical aiming device should the RDS fail. If, when I take a class, they provide alternate options - I may roll back. But until then - I picked up a set of Ameriglo sights that are slightly taller than stock but shorter than suppressor height sights. The back sight is solid black and the front is green so its visually distinct from the red of the RDS. This is a clip from a picture on a Walther forum showing what they "should" look like.



I also picked up the rear sight push tool and a $10 front sight tool (from Ameriglo). I figure there are enough pistols in my life that having the tool for the rear sight is worth the money.

I'm looking at classes on shooting with an RDS - and think I'll just dive in a bit. If the new sights present as shown in the picture I'd like to think that they won't distract from the dot. If they do - I can put the stock sights back on and use the Ameriglo's on a different gun.

 

[xerts1191]

Range Report

 

[BigNate]

Range Report

I hate to admit it - but I haven't gotten out yet. I got the new irons and the Holosun mounted. The last couple of weekends have been nutty. I doubt I'll get out this weekend (multiple graduations) but hopefully the next. I'll write it up as soon as I do...

 

[xerts1191]

Very Good, but now it’s getting hot

 

[freefly]

I picked up a set of Ameriglo sights that are slightly taller than stock but shorter than suppressor height sights. The back sight is solid black and the front is green so its visually distinct from the red of the RDS. This is a clip from a picture on a Walther forum showing what they "should" look like.

Just a quick edit to your pic there, to compare/contrast what a more minimalist (less intrusive/obstructive) BUIS set up would look like. Again, irons are back-up only on any RDS pistol, and better to keep them from encroaching into the optic window / sight picture as much as possible, IMO.

 

[BigNate]

I picked up a set of Ameriglo sights that are slightly taller than stock but shorter than suppressor height sights. The back sight is solid black and the front is green so its visually distinct from the red of the RDS. This is a clip from a picture on a Walther forum showing what they "should" look like.

Just a quick edit to your pic there, to compare/contrast what a more minimalist (less intrusive/obstructive) BUIS set up would look like. Again, irons are back-up only on any RDS pistol, and better to keep them from encroaching into the optic window / sight picture as much as possible, IMO.


CW.JPG CW c.jpg

Agreed - I wish I had purchased a blacked out front sight. On the other hand - after shooting it a bunch with the RDS on it - I honestly never saw the irons - they never interfered with picking up the dot. This was in a lit indoor range. I'll need to check it out at night in the dark - and if it is disruptive to picking up the dot I'll replace the front sight. At least I was smart enough to buy a front sight with an illumination color that is different from the dot.

 

[xerts1191]

https://www.dillonprecision.com/sight-correction-calculator.html
This looks like a good thread to drop this off.
I’m too stupid to figure it all out, for me it’s waste 50+ rounds and a couple of hours to get some sort of semblance of a zero. Carry On!

 

[xerts1191]

https://athlonoutdoors.com/article/understanding-long-range-turrets/
How many clicks to get to the center, this guy explains