Bugging out\things to consider

[AZGEEZER]

Figure I would just point out a few things about bugging out, on the slim chance SHTF. And I'm going to write what life is like up here in another thread at another time.

The majority don't stand a chance, physical limitations, age, medications etc. I read a lot here (at home), and for the most part all I see are keyboard Commandos with all the answers and no experience.

I wrote in another thread a saying\phrase....YOUR ONLY AS STRONG AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK.

If your dependent on Meds of any kind and those are in short supply....that's a weak link.
If your traveling on foot and people can't keep up....that's a weak link.
If our only "SKILLS" consist of talking and getting drunk....that's a weak link.

By now I hope you have an understanding of the phrase of what "YOUR ONLY AS STRONG AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK" refers too.

People of financial means will in all likelihood have a house #2 somewhere remote with someone keeping an eye on it.
For the folks that can and have done that, they're miles ahead of the crowd but not without limitations.
For the folks that survive on meager means....your pretty much up the creek without a paddle. Trust me when I say this,unless you have a very marketable skill-set that is so unique to country life your better off staying right where you are. And lets not think for a second since your a real good gardener you have life by the nads...think again. In this instance your not only going to need to know gardening, but how to make fencing from your surroundings as well as any fertilizer, and water. If you think everything is hunky-dory in the northern country to where you can just go to Home Depot and get what you need during SHTF your wrong. Seeds to grow will be an issue, I hope we all know what Monsanto did to the genetic code and the problems associated with that.

For the folks that have been trained: Through Military or something equivalent, you know you can muster what it takes. Hats off to you folks.

*****Most of this I hope folks know, but I'm going to say it anyway*****

Vehicle traffic is going to be so bad and slow moving (if it moves) that tank of gas wont mean a whole lot. The rule of law pretty much just got flushed down the crapper and things are going to get messy. I can go through different things and scenarios but I wont. Most folks wont know what to do if they get a flat tire, and if they do I'll bet that spare isn't a gem either.

There's a lot to consider starting at "POINT A" going to "POINT B".

I would suspect services are going to be down for some time, water, electricity, mail, and so on. So if your driving and had to sit through traffic, I wouldn't expect you to be able to fill your tank.

A lot of folks aren't going to want to hear this but "FEELINGS" went by way of the Dodo bird. Tears running down your cheeks, kids in tow, or whatever, wont get you what you want.

If you plan on walking the trip, you got a bigger pair than I do. Your going to need water all the time, and food. Even if you can hunt real well, others have the same idea, and what was once there as far as game I'm sure will move away kinda quickly.

For the folks that have never tried it....take a drive to the mountains. Park your car and walk about 10 miles away with only a canteen of water and food in your pockets. Some can relate to what I'm saying while others cant or wont. Thing is, if your on foot, it would be wise to have just a little taste of what it's like. Going shooting for a couple of hours out in the hot sun wont cut it. You know your vehicle is right there, you know it'll start, and generally you brought enough liquids for 3 days.

If you've noticed....I'm not giving any answers. I really can't since all of it would be based on speculation and no real facts.

There's a saying: Your safer in numbers, and in a case like this it would be advisable to do just that. And for the sake of the group I hope the numbers part are people you actually know. If you don't know them and they want to team up....that big ole red flag that means danger had better go up. In times of struggle and despair your going to have all manner of things thrown at you where "TRUST" has a different meaning.

For the hunters in the crowd your aware of how well sound travels, for the ones that aren't hunters....remember this.

In thick growth (TREES) sound doesn't travel all that well, but in the open areas sound travels for miles. I can sit out on my front deck at night and from 5 miles away I can hear the tires crunching the rocks on the road. Fires....can be seen from a real long ways off, and it isn't wise to advertise "HERE I AM" to anyone. Indians would make small fires and huddle real close, the white man would make big fires and stand away from it. There's a lesson there.

If your the type of meager means I would seek refuge where I am or somehow make real good friends with someone already in the northern country, which...is easier said than done. If your staying put and stocked up on food, remember that whatever your cooking has an aroma, and hungry folks can and will investigate, so be ready for that.

My next post will be in a new thread based on when folks actually get here and what to expect. And that'll be a whole lot longer than this.

 

[knockonit]

Nice, problem is most are under the impression your an old azgeezer and don't know shiat, but i suspect if anything does ever happen some will find out the hard way as things don't go as per hollywood, or some book they read from a fella who stayed at the old holiday inn in apache jt, lol.

Its easy to see how stupid some can be, go to a camp ground and you can usually pick up on the first timers, who think watching a movie tells the tale of how, what , when and who.

just saying,
Rj

 

[AZGEEZER]

@knockonit

From what I've experienced, I would say that 98.5% of the younger folks don't know squat. We have Grandkids and Great Grandkids and I told the wife I'll watch the Great Grandkids but the parents gotta go somewhere else. We raised the Grandkids and Grandpa was always the favorite. Not that Grandma was mean or anything it was Grandpa was always working and doing stuff.

When they come to visit the kids (older) have an attitude where they want to be catered too. Believe me this wasn't the way they were brought up, I was strict and loud and I said things once, never twice. They know if they want to argue the point (tried and failed miserabely) I cut no slack.

Kids today seem to be under the impression all they have to do is talk nice and they get what they want. Things just don't fall out of the sky, you have to earn things and talking nice doesn't mean diddly squat.

And even though I pretty much retired in 05 I still have 4 1/2 more years for SS. I have the name but it isn't accurate.

I'll get into more detail on my next thread.

 

[Gatsby]

Great post. We would go to our farm (South) and have the skills necessary to get there safely and to defend it.

The only thing I wanted to point out to you, is that you may be underestimating the response of desperate people. You kept mentioning people coming up and trying to sweet-talk the northerners into letting them stay. Personally, I think that's a dangerous mindset for you. I would shift that mentality to assuming they will want to take from you, and your responsibility will be to defend what's yours. Anyone that actually makes it up there will be either extremely lucky or have an above average skillset. Like Mattis said: "be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet".

Anyway, that's how my family and I approach it. There won't be many that want to head to where we are. Hell most people here don't know it exists. But there will be some. And they will be dealt with.

I do agree with everything else though. But honestly, most people that would try bugging out have never even been in the dark. Not real dark, where you can't see your hand when you hold it out in front of you.

Very few will make it to you. Ware the ones that do.

 

[Harrier]

I know what dark is... I worked in a WV coal mine back in '68.
I doubt any of us 'ol geezers' are going to be bugging out anywhere so i for one, plan on staying right where I am, unfortunately it's not in the hills like I always envisioned- its wide open flat.
Defense of your fixed position is always hard and usually unsuccessful in the long run. So practice them long range skills.
Even someone who is bugging out to someplace ("North" is a big area) are going to have to try and defend wherever they squat, from both the locals and the next wandering group. Except they aren't going to have the resources with them like the person already living in that place, they won't last long but they will be a constant threat.

 

[Ballistic Therapy]

I have no plans to bug out to anywhere.
I will just stay home.
It should be pretty nice around here once everyone else bugs out.
I am still not sure why everyone will be bugging out though.

 

[Flash]

Here's a picture of people bugging out during Katrina.

 

[AZGEEZER]

Great post. We would go to our farm (South) and have the skills necessary to get there safely and to defend it.

The only thing I wanted to point out to you, is that you may be underestimating the response of desperate people. You kept mentioning people coming up and trying to sweet-talk the northerners into letting them stay. Personally, I think that's a dangerous mindset for you. I would shift that mentality to assuming they will want to take from you, and your responsibility will be to defend what's yours. Anyone that actually makes it up there will be either extremely lucky or have an above average skillset. Like Mattis said: "be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet".

Anyway, that's how my family and I approach it. There won't be many that want to head to where we are. Hell most people here don't know it exists. But there will be some. And they will be dealt with.

I do agree with everything else though. But honestly, most people that would try bugging out have never even been in the dark. Not real dark, where you can't see your hand when you hold it out in front of you.

Very few will make it to you. Ware the ones that do.

When I wrote this....There really is more than 1 way to approach it. A person can go down the dark and dirty path or try and put things in a not so *DARK* path. I stay away from many details since it can be construed as "EVIL" or "MEAN" and there really are way to many *DOOM AND GLOOM* people out there.

In some instances (more than a few actually) there are the takers as I call them. With what I can do and have done it seems the only time folks say more than 2 words to me are when they either want something materialistic from me or want me to do something for them. Almost all the time they offer to pay (below min wage) for what they want. I tell them that I'll give them a list of what they need and I'll teach them, that goes over like a lead balloon. Seems they want things but aren't willing to put the same effort into it as I have too. So to me they're classified as "USERS" and they're now on there own.

For the people that expect to get what they want from you....I really don't see that lasting all that long. That has been played on me so many times it isn't funny, and I cut them off at the knees so fast they don't know what happened.

Living on 40 acres with just a few trees is hard to defend, I have ideas, but getting what it takes to do it takes $ and around here that's like finding hens teeth.

 

[AZGEEZER]

I know what dark is... I worked in a WV coal mine back in '68.
I doubt any of us 'ol geezers' are going to be bugging out anywhere so i for one, plan on staying right where I am, unfortunately it's not in the hills like I always envisioned- its wide open flat.
Defense of your fixed position is always hard and usually unsuccessful in the long run. So practice them long range skills.
Even someone who is bugging out to someplace ("North" is a big area) are going to have to try and defend wherever they squat, from both the locals and the next wandering group. Except they aren't going to have the resources with them like the person already living in that place, they won't last long but they will be a constant threat.

Living in the flat areas are truly hard to defend. A persons mind can really wonder a bit on that and come up with all kinds of SciFi answers. That part can be kind of funny if you sit back and think about it.

 

[AZGEEZER]

@Flash..

I really like your style..

 

[Flash]

Thank you. I like yours also.

 

[Harrier]

BT, the ones buggng out will likely be the city dweller like in the pic... no one will want to be in the cities and they think they have a better chance in the wild open spaces. One thing I could never understand in that pic- why is the right side of the freeway empty? if everyone is leaving there are 3 more lanes they could fill up! idiots....

 

[Gatsby]

BT, the ones buggng out will likely be the city dweller like in the pic... no one will want to be in the cities and they think they have a better chance in the wild open spaces. One thing I could never understand in that pic- why is the right side of the freeway empty? if everyone is leaving there are 3 more lanes they could fill up! idiots....

People are sheep and incapable of thinking for themselves. MOST people are, anyway.

 

[Flash]

BT, the ones buggng out will likely be the city dweller like in the pic... no one will want to be in the cities and they think they have a better chance in the wild open spaces. One thing I could never understand in that pic- why is the right side of the freeway empty? if everyone is leaving there are 3 more lanes they could fill up! idiots....

The right side isn't empty. You'll notice there are a few cars going the other way, so traveling against traffic going that way could get exciting if not done properly. Besides, people are brainwashed into thinking one way only.

 

[brandyspaw]

Yeah, I've found that people have a fantasy that they can bug out from SHTF trouble and become some kind of a "Batman in the boon docks" once they get there. All the time not realizing how difficult it would be to travel and how little game would be left after SHTF occurred.

It doesn't matter if its driving the roads, off-road or hiking. It'll be a lot harder than many think. Heck, It's sometimes difficult enough just to travel north in this state on weekends with all the recreational traffic let alone SHTF panic.

So I'd rather stay put and ride out a bad situation than hit the road with only what I could carry. The one thing I'd never want to become is a refugee.

 

[Flash]

Form up a protective association with as many of your neighbors as you can and hunker down. Some locations are better for that than others, as an example a culdesac type of area but most can adapt to it.

Talk to your neighbors about having a minimum 6 months worth of food and water and medical supplies if at all possible and also about firearms and ammunition in sufficient quantities. Let them know you won't be supporting them and they'll have to carry their own weight.

 

[knockonit]

What it all boils down to is to have a plan, and an alternate plan, and discuss with like minded folks, bugging out in this area (meaning phoenix) just means sitting on a road somewhere in a clusterfudge of traffic, and dealing with the utmost stupidity of man that will be prevalent.

I do know of ways out of phoenix, takes a four wheeler, and suspect quite a few know of them, but where ya gonna go once you get there, aw.................there is that planning thing again

I think one would be safer in the city versus on the road, especially if one has back up, and if planned correctly one would.

One has to remember the majority of folks will not survive long at all, they will perish by the handfulls, all over, problem at that point will be the sanitary conditions of the area you choose to live in and survive in,
Its really kinda funny, cause most think it may be a short time, most don't know how to feed themselves without a micky ds. or a circle jerk around the corner, or a frys, just saying.

One will quickly discover what the evil of man will be capable of, and if you wish to survive, you will become something that you never dreamed of being. Its alife changer, trying to survive, anyplace, anytime.
just the way it will be, and here's hoping it never comes to it.
Rj

 

[Harrier]

Well yeah, I did see those cars but a few patrol cars placed in strategic places, or even portable barricades on on-ramps would keep those cars out. What is more important, evacuating hundreds of thousands of people or keeping a three lane freeway open for a few that want to go into the city? they can use local roads IMO. als once the lanes are filled with a mass of cars, most would think twice about going the wrong way against them.
JMO

 

[azmp5]

My g/f and I talk about this kind of a thing (SHTF / Bug out) every now and again. The "bad" part is in all honesty, we just have to much "stuff" we would have to take. BEST case, we are able to load up my truck with all the guns/ammo. I still go back and forth on how "valuable" the reloading stuff would be, but if you include the presses that AND the components, the bed of the truck will be full.. and then some. We should be able to get the food/water in mt g/fs car as well as misc stuff. *** really just depends on how much time we have.

On a plus side, a good friend of mine who we have talked about this stuff before, only lives a mile down the road and has a truck as well. so between the 3 of us, and with enough time (2-3 hours) we should be able to load up all 3 vehicles with most of what we need.

I do find it "funny" cause whenever the "world coming to an end" talk comes up between regular friends or coworkers, they always joke saying, "all i know is im going to your house." yet I always have the same answer.... if you know me, you know I wont be there. We have 1 main place we r going thats about 10 miles away and out first pick. we have 2 back up spots but they are much more of a drive.

 

[Harrier]

If your only 10 miles from your bugout location then you should be able to make several trips... or even just move there.
Get a trailer and expand your trucks capacity.
You could pick up an extra reloading setup and stash it.
You could pre-load a whole bunch of ammo and have it in cans to take or stash it too.
You could pack a couple Lee Loaders and do what yo need by hand.
I can't see a problem not taking the reload gear. You will need plenty of components so stock up on primers, powder and lead.