https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/New-Details-Borderline-Bar-Shooting-Investigation-502182061.html
Jesus H. Christ.
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"Blue on blue" in Borderline bar
- Thread starter smithers599
- Start date
It's arguable whether the police "stopped" the shooting. The shooter killed himself. How many rounds did police fire, and did any of them hit the shooter before he shot himself?
We know that it is fairly common for psycho shooters to commit suicide as soon as they encounter resistance, so it could be argued that just by showing up and shooting (even though missing), the police "stopped" the shooting.
The question remains, though: If a non-LEO tried to shoot the BG, but instead shot and killed a police officer -- and then the BG killed himself -- would that person also be characterized as a hero, caught up in unfortunate, tragic, chaotic circumstances?
We know that it is fairly common for psycho shooters to commit suicide as soon as they encounter resistance, so it could be argued that just by showing up and shooting (even though missing), the police "stopped" the shooting.
The question remains, though: If a non-LEO tried to shoot the BG, but instead shot and killed a police officer -- and then the BG killed himself -- would that person also be characterized as a hero, caught up in unfortunate, tragic, chaotic circumstances?
smithers599 said:It's arguable whether the police "stopped" the shooting. The shooter killed himself. How many rounds did police fire, and did any of them hit the shooter before he shot himself?
We know that it is fairly common for psycho shooters to commit suicide as soon as they encounter resistance, so it could be argued that just by showing up and shooting (even though missing), the police "stopped" the shooting.
The question remains, though: If a non-LEO tried to shoot the BG, but instead shot and killed a police officer -- and then the BG killed himself -- would that person also be characterized as a hero, caught up in unfortunate, tragic, chaotic circumstances?
No. He would be tried for manslaughter at the least and murder 2 at the most.
His obvious lack of training as demonstrated by his poor shooting would be said to be why non police shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in public. The public outcry as well as that by police officials would be deafening.
Two sets of laws in this country.
Steve_In_29
Member
But I thought LEOs were the only people who were properly trained enough to be trusted with firearms?
Steve_In_29
Member
As evidenced by the shooting in NY City where a guy shot people in his workplace and then was confronted by two cops outside the building. During the ensuing close range shootout on the sidewalk, multiple bystanders were hit by stray rounds. The Police Dept at first officially blamed the injuries on the shooter. Until it came out ALL the victims were hit by 9mm (what the cops were carrying) while the shooter had used a .45.Flash said:No. He would be tried for manslaughter at the least and murder 2 at the most.
His obvious lack of training as demonstrated by his poor shooting would be said to be why non police shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in public. The public outcry as well as that by police officials would be deafening.
Two sets of laws in this country.
AFAIK the cops were not charged.
Flash said:smithers599 said:It's arguable whether the police "stopped" the shooting. The shooter killed himself. How many rounds did police fire, and did any of them hit the shooter before he shot himself?
We know that it is fairly common for psycho shooters to commit suicide as soon as they encounter resistance, so it could be argued that just by showing up and shooting (even though missing), the police "stopped" the shooting.
The question remains, though: If a non-LEO tried to shoot the BG, but instead shot and killed a police officer -- and then the BG killed himself -- would that person also be characterized as a hero, caught up in unfortunate, tragic, chaotic circumstances?
No. He would be tried for manslaughter at the least and murder 2 at the most.
His obvious lack of training as demonstrated by his poor shooting would be said to be why non police shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in public. The public outcry as well as that by police officials would be deafening.
Two sets of laws in this country.
I am tired of the two sets of rules crap in this country.
Yes, the cop-killer cop f'd up.
Yes, there are two sets of rules for cops and non-cops.
However, I still feel terrible about the poor guy who died while honestly and bravely trying to "protect and serve." I also feel sorry for the guy that killed him -- his career, and life, are over. For the rest of his life, no matter what else he does, he will always be "That guy who f'd up and killed another cop." He is a prime candidate to do himself in.
I don't know what happened, but I have a theory, based on watching video of the NY shooting cited by 338lapua above. In that video, one of the cops holds his gun at eye level and appears to aim. The other hops around all over the place, shooting one-handed without using the sights. I am guessing (but we will never know, because I doubt the police will ever release the forensic evidence) that all or most of the hits on the BG came from the cop who kept his cool, and all or most of the hits on the bystanders came from the guy who lost his cool.
As Cooper wrote back in 1989, when a police officer misses at close range, it is not a failure of marksmanship. He can shoot; he has proved it on the range. Rather, it is a failure of mental conditioning, a lack of Coolness. All cops receive training in how to shoot, but not many get mental conditioning training -- how to keep cool under fire. It can be learned. Surgeons do it, so do pilots. So do actors and musicians and quarterbacks -- how to keep cool and take care of business when everything goes wrong. I don't know if the cop-killer cop had mental conditioning training but failed, or if he never had mental conditioning training, but it is apparent that he did not keep his cool.
Yes, there are two sets of rules for cops and non-cops.
However, I still feel terrible about the poor guy who died while honestly and bravely trying to "protect and serve." I also feel sorry for the guy that killed him -- his career, and life, are over. For the rest of his life, no matter what else he does, he will always be "That guy who f'd up and killed another cop." He is a prime candidate to do himself in.
I don't know what happened, but I have a theory, based on watching video of the NY shooting cited by 338lapua above. In that video, one of the cops holds his gun at eye level and appears to aim. The other hops around all over the place, shooting one-handed without using the sights. I am guessing (but we will never know, because I doubt the police will ever release the forensic evidence) that all or most of the hits on the BG came from the cop who kept his cool, and all or most of the hits on the bystanders came from the guy who lost his cool.
As Cooper wrote back in 1989, when a police officer misses at close range, it is not a failure of marksmanship. He can shoot; he has proved it on the range. Rather, it is a failure of mental conditioning, a lack of Coolness. All cops receive training in how to shoot, but not many get mental conditioning training -- how to keep cool under fire. It can be learned. Surgeons do it, so do pilots. So do actors and musicians and quarterbacks -- how to keep cool and take care of business when everything goes wrong. I don't know if the cop-killer cop had mental conditioning training but failed, or if he never had mental conditioning training, but it is apparent that he did not keep his cool.
When I was in Basic Training in the Army, they did a thing one night where we low crawled around 100 yards or so. At the end of the 100 yards there were 3 M60 machine guns with the Elevation locked down on the T&E mechanism. You couldn't crawl in a straight line as there were a bunch of "islands" that were surrounded by chicken wire and full of individual C4 charges that were detonated in a pseudorandom manner.
It was all done after dark. There were tracers whizzing over your head, constant explosions from 360 degrees around you and you crawled with a full pack and an M14 balanced on your forearms. Took what seemed like a long time to crawl all the way past the M60s, must've had around 3,000 rounds go over my head from around 12' over at the start of the crawl to around 4' at the end when I went past the guns.
Bullets going by and explosions don't bother me in the slightest any more.
The cops need something like that but they'll never get it.
It was all done after dark. There were tracers whizzing over your head, constant explosions from 360 degrees around you and you crawled with a full pack and an M14 balanced on your forearms. Took what seemed like a long time to crawl all the way past the M60s, must've had around 3,000 rounds go over my head from around 12' over at the start of the crawl to around 4' at the end when I went past the guns.
Bullets going by and explosions don't bother me in the slightest any more.
The cops need something like that but they'll never get it.
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