black bear caliber?

[iotarho]

Almost always carry a 9mm semi as 'just in case' but a friend and I were debating if something bigger wouldn't be better in case you're expecting to be field dressing a deer or elk in black bear country, especially in the active rearing months for sows.

I'd contend a 9mm with the right ammo is fine for any predator you'd come across in AZ... happy to be talked out of that though.

 

[Boriqua]

Oooo Oooo .. can I be the first one!

said in a deep baritone all knowing voice

"its not about the cartridge .. its all about bullet placement"

 

[Boriqua]

Whew .. with that out of the way ... Its actually pretty true. If it were a real concern, I think the prevailing wisdom is to go with a FMJ or flat nose and heavier is better so if your gun will feed 147 gr ..

https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/9mm-luger-p-147-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose?variant=18785691598905

I think that would do the job quite well. We are talking black bear and not grizzly.

My regular old carry load out in the desert or the mean streets of east east mesa (joking) is 155 gr XTP 40S&W over 9.3 gr of longshot or 158 gr .357mag HTP I figure ... I am pretty well covered for anything and if not .. meh .. a bad luck day.

Of course I wouldnt be doing my duty as a gun guy if I didnt suggest ...a new gun!!!

The Springfield XDm 10mm is a pretty awesome tool. Love the trigger and the feel of the frame under fire. Had the smaller of the 2 and it carried ..somewhat easily and should stop whatever ails you.
https://www.springfield-armory.com/xd-series-handguns/xd-m-handguns/xd-m-45-10mm-handgun/

The Rock Island in 10mm was pretty awesome if you like 1911's. Another board member now has it but it was a compact hand held bad ass
https://www.armscor.com/firearms/ria/tac-series/tac-ultra-ms-10mm/

and of course its hard to go wrong with a revolver in .357 or .44. I find the heavier bullets in both are a breeze to shoot. I like the Rugers. There is a 10mm version too but .. I decided I hate moon clips

Love my S&W 28 but I wont buy another post lock smith so I would have to be on the look out for an older one.

 

[iotarho]

Oooo Oooo .. can I be the first one!

said in a deep baritone all knowing voice

"its not about the cartridge .. its all about bullet placement"

Ain't that the truth... the Mike Tyson corollary? "Everyone's got great aim until a 200 pound black bear swats them in the face".

 

[iotarho]

Whew .. with that out of the way ... Its actually pretty true. If it were a real concern, I think the prevailing wisdom is to go with a FMJ or flat nose and heavier is better so if your gun will feed 147 gr ..

https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/9mm-luger-p-147-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose?variant=18785691598905

I think that would do the job quite well. We are talking black bear and not grizzly.
...

Thanks, some great links.. I've never tried that 147 grain flatnose, that looks like it packs a serious punch. Of course the whatiffer in me looked at the rest of your post and said "yeah, I think I need a 10mm".

I've never hunted in grizzly territory. Part of me likes to think there's still a few grizzlies that have been hiding out for 100+ years in the remotest part of the White Mountains since the "last one" was taken there. If that were the case, I think I'd rather be famous for being mauled by the last Arizona grizzly vs. infamous for shooting it.

 

[Boriqua]

Whew .. with that out of the way ... Its actually pretty true. If it were a real concern, I think the prevailing wisdom is to go with a FMJ or flat nose and heavier is better so if your gun will feed 147 gr ..

https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/9mm-luger-p-147-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose?variant=18785691598905

I think that would do the job quite well. We are talking black bear and not grizzly.
...

If that were the case, I think I'd rather be famous for being mauled by the last Arizona grizzly vs. infamous for shooting it.

I think I love that statement!

I carry out in the desert mostly because I carry whenever I am outdoors but .. my immediate concerns are Methies and Javalina. The coyotes just scamper off and being a photo hound I wish they would tough it out longer because at 100 yds they usually disappear and I never get a good shot. One of these days I might get a longer lens

I have come across recently abandoned human camps that didnt look like they were set up by traditional campers so .. methies or border crossers but I never run into the people .. just know they were there recently by the odd graphiti in a place that taggers wouldnt go and the trash they leave behind and how long it seems to have been there.

The area around Punkin Center is a bit weird sometimes.

Have run into a few javelina though and a few rattle snakes and some feral dog packs .. they dont scurry off like the coyote but .. in all the 16 years I have been trudging and riding around the desert in different parts of AZ I have never had to unholster my gun.

Still nice to have though!!

 

[Lobo2087]

Bigger is better until you cannot control for follow up shots then it wont matter if its a 454 or a 22lr. Not sure when a 1000lb + pile of teeth is coming at me my butt wont pucker and affect my aim. That said assuming the first round doesn't stop it Im damn going to want the next two for it and then maybe the 4th for myself when it starts gnawing.

Carry what you can shoot rapidly accurately. In a nutshell that's what shot placement is anyhow

 

[knockonit]

can't say have heard of any problems with bears in Arizona in regards to attacks on humans, other than the usual trash can, camp bullshiat, but i may be wrong, leave food out and well, we all know a bear is a scavenger, so...................

 

[iotarho]

can't say have heard of any problems with bears in Arizona in regards to attacks on humans, other than the usual trash can, camp bullshiat, but i may be wrong, leave food out and well, we all know a bear is a scavenger, so...................

Thanks, defintely my take on it too. I'd agree with Lobo as well... a bear attack probably wouldn't make the top 10 list of reasons why I carry in the AZ wilderness, and most of the rest have to do with humans with bad intentions. It's more that if I am gonna carry, I want to have an ammo that's reliable for the most possible situations.

 

[Vinnie B]

I have spent 1000's of days in the woods and have had 2 close bear encounters. 1 was while turkey hunting and following the sounds of a tom gobbling his head of one morning when all of the sudden I ended up between a sow and her cub. That was a chilling experience to say the least, she was smashing her teeth and letting me know she was not happy. I drew and played out the game with her and we both walked away alive. It only took a couple minutes probably but it sure seemed like an hour.

The other was while calling in a bull elk, Sitting down cow calling and having a bull on his way in all of the sudden a cinnamon colored bear came into an opening about 10 yards away. very frightening to say the least and my buddy had the elk tag and a bear tag and bear season was still open. That one ended in the bull never came in all the way and we packed out a bear.

I usually carry a Shield in 45. It fits well on my pack with easy access. I have carried 357 and 44's a bunch too but the Shield seems to be a better fit for me with the pack on. I have better and faster access to it if the need should arise.

 

[xerts1191]

.45

 

[Longhair1957]

I have shot a charging 425 lb black bear male. I shot him with a .375 H&h 270 grain Sierra soft point. Range was under 50 yards. He saw I was human and did not care. I was standing and yelling at him. Kept coming.. It was crazy how fast he was coming. I had leveled my rifle. But i knew not to try a head shot on a charging bear. He turned to the left to go around a downed tree. That gave me a shoulder shot. BOOM, .375 went though both shoulders. He dropped like a rock. I swiftly reloaded, (Ruger #1). He stood back up. Then dropped a final time. Then he slid and rolled to the bottom of a ravine.
Point is even a .375 with twice the power off a .30’06. He had a little life left as he stood back up. I have a much greater respect of Blackies.
Something to remember with bear attacks. A Brown will buck you up. Then leave you to ripen before eating. A Black will start eating you before you are dead.
Not the way I’d like to go out. I can’t imagine being eaten alive, especially they start on your guts.

 

[XJThrottle]

I have shot a charging 425 lb black bear male. I shot him with a .375 H&h 270 grain Sierra soft point. Range was under 50 yards. He saw I was human and did not care. I was standing and yelling at him. Kept coming.. It was crazy how fast he was coming. I had leveled my rifle. But i knew not to try a head shot on a charging bear. He turned to the left to go around a downed tree. That gave me a shoulder shot. BOOM, .375 went though both shoulders. He dropped like a rock. I swiftly reloaded, (Ruger #1). He stood back up. Then dropped a final time. Then he slid and rolled to the bottom of a ravine.
Point is even a .375 with twice the power off a .30’06. He had a little life left as he stood back up. I have a much greater respect of Blackies.
Something to remember with bear attacks. A Brown will buck you up. Then leave you to ripen before eating. A Black will start eating you before you are dead.
Not the way I’d like to go out. I can’t imagine being eaten alive, especially they start on your guts.

What did you do with the bear?

 

[Longhair1957]

I put a tag on him.
I always have a bear tag with me if I’m out hunting. Mtn. lion as well if they are in the area I’m in.
You just never know.

 

[iotarho]

I have spent 1000's of days in the woods and have had 2 close bear encounters. 1 was while turkey hunting and following the sounds of a tom gobbling his head of one morning when all of the sudden I ended up between a sow and her cub. That was a chilling experience to say the least, she was smashing her teeth and letting me know she was not happy. I drew and played out the game with her and we both walked away alive. It only took a couple minutes probably but it sure seemed like an hour.

The other was while calling in a bull elk, Sitting down cow calling and having a bull on his way in all of the sudden a cinnamon colored bear came into an opening about 10 yards away. very frightening to say the least and my buddy had the elk tag and a bear tag and bear season was still open. That one ended in the bull never came in all the way and we packed out a bear.

May not be a thing to it but I swear a lot of hunters I've shared AZ black bear encounters with have them during turkey hunts... not sure if it's time of year or similar stalking grounds or just me reading too much into it?

Curious what you used to drop the bull?

 

[marlin39a]

I sometimes venture north of me where I have seen bear sign. I carry a Springfield Armory TRP, 10mm, 6”. Loaded with my reloads of 200 gr hardcast bullets. Carried on the chest with quick access and an extra magazine.

 

[jls in az]

Had a sow with 3 cubs within 30 yards two years ago while deer hunting at a spring in the mountains. She was upwind of me and just kept on coming until I stepped out so she could see what I was. She stopped for about a minute, then turned around and hustled her cubs back up the hill they has come down. It was a polite encounter for all involved. I usually carry a 686 with 158 gr hard cast loaded to 1500 fps.

 

[Edge]

When guiding in AZ you're limited to a 4" or shorter barrel so I went with the Glock 29, a 10mm.

For bear you need penetration and therefore bullet hardness.

An individual I know with a forte for killing a bear annually tells me he has found a lot of .45 and .357 rounds in a bears fat. One bear in particular had 4 rounds of 357 in his fat.

 

[knockonit]

uh oh the authoritarian has arrived, and spoken, all else is moot
Rj

 

[delta6]

uh oh the authoritarian has arrived, and spoken, all else is moot
Rj

Giggles... :clap: