Bill of Sale
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One of my recent buys, the seller had me SIGN a BOS, and recorded down my D/L details, LOL.
If that's what floats his boat...OK. He may be acting out of ignorance, as though he needs to....or caution because he's unsure, or just the ultimate in CYA. If I wan't the gun, and it's a deal that I like, I don't care.
Heck, what if he's the not the original owner, and it comes up stolen? Having YOUR copy of that BOS would sure save some headaches, eh?
Like the OP, I've been contacted by L/E about a gun I had bought new (duh), and later sold across the table at a show. I told him it went to adult, w/m, AZ-resident, and that's all I could recall. Fine, end-of-story. Curiosity forced me to ask.... It turned-up in possession of an arrested prostitute, LOL.
If that's what floats his boat...OK. He may be acting out of ignorance, as though he needs to....or caution because he's unsure, or just the ultimate in CYA. If I wan't the gun, and it's a deal that I like, I don't care.
Heck, what if he's the not the original owner, and it comes up stolen? Having YOUR copy of that BOS would sure save some headaches, eh?
Like the OP, I've been contacted by L/E about a gun I had bought new (duh), and later sold across the table at a show. I told him it went to adult, w/m, AZ-resident, and that's all I could recall. Fine, end-of-story. Curiosity forced me to ask.... It turned-up in possession of an arrested prostitute, LOL.
#62Post by pneuby ,..."Heck, what if he's the not the original owner, and it comes up stolen? Having YOUR copy of that BOS would sure save some headaches, eh?"
Uhhh, not exactly.
I am not an attorney, or a prosicuter,... but, the little understanding I have of the law, tells me,... you can have all the paper documentation it would take to fill a dumpster, but, it won't make the slightest difference, in your defense, for receiving/possession of stolen property,... if a DA wishes to prosecute.
Uhhh, not exactly.
I am not an attorney, or a prosicuter,... but, the little understanding I have of the law, tells me,... you can have all the paper documentation it would take to fill a dumpster, but, it won't make the slightest difference, in your defense, for receiving/possession of stolen property,... if a DA wishes to prosecute.
Okay some of you don't like bill of sale. Fine. It is to protect the seller if the firearm is used to commit a crime. Case in point. Around 10 years ago, a person I know sold an AK without a bill of sale. He did ask to see an Az. picture ID. A few months later the Feds are knocking on his door. His name was on the 4473 as the buyer. The AK had been converted to full auto and used in a robbery in Cali. He had no bill of sale to prove he sold it. Lucky for him he remembered the buyer and gave the agents a description of the buyer. Matched the criminal to a tee. After that bill of sales. When he told me what happened I went out and got a receipt book. As for the buyer I proves that he is the rightful owner of the firearm. A bill of sale can be a good thing for both the seller and buyer.
#64Unread post by Az desert rat 1,... "He had no bill of sale to prove he sold it. Lucky for him he remembered the buyer and gave the agents a description of the buyer. Matched the criminal to a tee. "
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Az desert rat 1,... sorry guy, but your are making the case for NO BILL OF SALE!
As you posted, he had no BofS and had NO PROBLEMS with the law!!!
Now,... if you missed one of my previous posts,... about the possibility of SELF INCRIMINATION if you have paper work for a sale,... because of the possibility of a DA thinking, or, wanting to insinuate in a court of law, that you MUST OF HAD SOME IDEA THAT YOU WERE SELLING TO A PROHIBITED POSSESSOR, BECAUSE, YOU TOOK THE PRECAUTION, TO REQUIRE PAPER WORK DOCUMENTATION OF THE FIREARM SALE.
In other words,... you must of had to have some idea, that something was wrong about that buyer,... or, why would you require paper work from him, when even the State of Arizona doesn't require such documentation!!!
Think about it!
We the people have elected representatives, here in Arizona, to pass legislation FOR OUR PROTECTION AGAINST GOVERNMENT INFRINGEMENT UPON OUR CREATOR ENDOWED INALIENABLE RIGHTS.
We the people put into office, representatives to pass legislation that would not infringe on our Constitutional Right to,... NOT INCRIMINATE OURSELVES.
Hence,... Arizona law does NOT REQUIRE any PAPERWORK for the sale of ANY PRIVATE PROPERTY, AKA FIREARM ,... except for automobiles, real estate, etc., where WE the PEOPLE would truly be protected from fraud.
Think about it, again!
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Az desert rat 1,... sorry guy, but your are making the case for NO BILL OF SALE!
As you posted, he had no BofS and had NO PROBLEMS with the law!!!
Now,... if you missed one of my previous posts,... about the possibility of SELF INCRIMINATION if you have paper work for a sale,... because of the possibility of a DA thinking, or, wanting to insinuate in a court of law, that you MUST OF HAD SOME IDEA THAT YOU WERE SELLING TO A PROHIBITED POSSESSOR, BECAUSE, YOU TOOK THE PRECAUTION, TO REQUIRE PAPER WORK DOCUMENTATION OF THE FIREARM SALE.
In other words,... you must of had to have some idea, that something was wrong about that buyer,... or, why would you require paper work from him, when even the State of Arizona doesn't require such documentation!!!
Think about it!
We the people have elected representatives, here in Arizona, to pass legislation FOR OUR PROTECTION AGAINST GOVERNMENT INFRINGEMENT UPON OUR CREATOR ENDOWED INALIENABLE RIGHTS.
We the people put into office, representatives to pass legislation that would not infringe on our Constitutional Right to,... NOT INCRIMINATE OURSELVES.
Hence,... Arizona law does NOT REQUIRE any PAPERWORK for the sale of ANY PRIVATE PROPERTY, AKA FIREARM ,... except for automobiles, real estate, etc., where WE the PEOPLE would truly be protected from fraud.
Think about it, again!
Az desert rat 1 said:
I had something similar happen, sold a spare Franken-AR to fund another project and a bit over a year later DHS was at my door asking questions. Turns out they had found it at an illegal alien stash house down in Tucson, likely about to be smuggled to mexihole.
I told them I sold it, when I sold it, no I did not have a bill of sale, and they left never to be heard from again.
I knew I hadn't broke any laws, they knew I hadn't broke any laws, but since the receiver was purchased by me on a 4473 they had to come ask if I had a record that could lead to the next guy.
Like I said earlier in the thread, a bos is retarded, wont save you from the knock at the door, wont make them go away any easier than just saying you sold it legally to another AZ resident sans paperwork, and is damn near as stupid as the idiots who demand they follow FFL guidelines to sell private sale like requiring a pistol buyer be 21 or ask for someone to have a ccw, leo badge, be a first responder, or a twic card holding road warrior shtooper hooman... :roll:
As a buyer, I actually prefer a Bill of Sale in order to have legal proof that I now own the firearm. Just for my records. Don't need the previous owner to have a senior moment and report it stolen, or have someone mis-key the serial number into a stolen firearms database without any recourse.
As a seller, I won't force anyone into a Bill of Sale, but I will ask them to flash an AZ DL just to make sure they're not Cali scammers. Nothing recorded, just a quick glance, that's all. Not too much to ask. If they ask for a Bill of Sale, I'll be happy to write one for them (has happened a few times)
As a seller, I won't force anyone into a Bill of Sale, but I will ask them to flash an AZ DL just to make sure they're not Cali scammers. Nothing recorded, just a quick glance, that's all. Not too much to ask. If they ask for a Bill of Sale, I'll be happy to write one for them (has happened a few times)
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