Ben Avery small-bore silhouette range?

[GunSmoke]

Every time I go to Ben Avery, I can't help but wonder how you get access to the small-bore silhouette range?

I have asked the folks working in pistol range office as well as the Clay's field if they know how to gain access to the small bore silhouette, and the response is always the same "you have to be a member of a group who has access." To which I always ask, "do you know which groups have access?" No they do not.

So, now I'm asking all of you. Do you know of any groups, or a way to get access to the Ben Avery small-bore silhouette ranges?

Thanks everyone.

 

[Stronghand]

Have to set up a user group and have the appropriate insurance they want. Then you just send the request to reserve the range and follow their rules and steps. Any of the instructors or clubs can do it. You just dont see instructors renting it out for ccw classes and whatnot. Try asking other instructors who use it or hobby groups. Or set your own user group up and get all your friends who want to use that range together.

 

[GunSmoke]

Thank you. Are you aware of any existing clubs or groups that I might join? Not sure I have a large enough group to make the insurance affordable.

 

[338lapua]

Before the game and fish jerks took over the range you used to be able to access this range as well as the 1,000 yard range. Then I believe you had to join the Hassayampa Rod and Gun Club and if you lick their asses the right way and were buddy buddy with the right person you could use it when you wanted. But if you weren't in with the right person you shot matches with the rest of the people. It was a awesome range when the county ran it, I would love to know how the G&F jerks got control of it

 

[rbt50]

this is why I never go to ben avery.

 

[338lapua]

this is why I never go to ben avery.

Most of the RSO's are nice people, had some great conversations with a few of them, just their management that sucks.

 

[YNOTAZ]

Before the game and fish jerks took over the range you used to be able to access this range as well as the 1,000 yard range. Then I believe you had to join the Hassayampa Rod and Gun Club and if you lick their asses the right way and were buddy buddy with the right person you could use it when you wanted. But if you weren't in with the right person you shot matches with the rest of the people. It was a awesome range when the county ran it, I would love to know how the G&F jerks got control of it

+1000. I pay for this crap but have to join a club to use it. Screw them.

Oh, but wait, "the clubs are all good". Yeah but what if you want to take a custom pistol onto the rifle silhouette range. I used to shoot the rams all the time with my custom Contender. Try that now, with a club. Screw them.

Oh yeah, you can invest hundreds of hours to form your own club and get it approved by the G&F idiots so you can use what you already pay for. Screw them.

 

[338lapua]

Before the game and fish jerks took over the range you used to be able to access this range as well as the 1,000 yard range. Then I believe you had to join the Hassayampa Rod and Gun Club and if you lick their asses the right way and were buddy buddy with the right person you could use it when you wanted. But if you weren't in with the right person you shot matches with the rest of the people. It was a awesome range when the county ran it, I would love to know how the G&F jerks got control of it

+1000. I pay for this crap but have to join a club to use it. Screw them.

Oh, but wait, "the clubs are all good". Yeah but what if you want to take a custom pistol onto the rifle silhouette range. I used to shoot the rams all the time with my custom Contender. Try that now, with a club. Screw them.

Oh yeah, you can invest hundreds of hours to form your own club and get it approved by the G&F idiots so you can use what you already pay for. Screw them.

I have zero love for G&F effers. Ben Avery is turning over in his grave with what they have done with his gift to the shooters of Arizona. Everyone they hire seems to be a libtard. I don't hunt in Arizona because of these pricks. I spend my money elsewhere.

 

[Stronghand]

We can rent out any range. The only downside of the 1000 yard is needing a pit crew. You can also rent out the 300 yard rifle range near the DPS range and that solves most longer range feelings. Most the folks I know that want to shoot further are usually content hiking put into the desert and setting up targets. If you can get a few people message me and I'll come out and use our user group to rent a range. Assuming everyone's not a complete schmuck.

 

[82echo]

BA management is considering opening more of the ranges to the public. Right now it's a staffing issue. Last spring they did open most of the ranges to the public for a weekend to gauge interest. RSO was done by the user groups that use those ranges. There was enough interest to do it again this fall (I don't have the dates yet, will post when I do).

I get that a large public range like BA is not for everyone; don't like it, don't go.

 

[YNOTAZ]

I get that a large public range like BA is not for everyone; don't like it, don't go.

I understand your comment but a large public range isn't large and it isn't public if only 10% is open to the public.

You said, they are attempting to gauge interest. They knew the interest when they took the range over because they had the history of sign in sheets from County and they knew the oprating cost of the range. They chose to close the specialty ranges so the moeny could be better spent on their shiny new office building. Now they might give the specialty ranges back to the public, how many years later?

 

[harleypower69]

Before the game and fish jerks took over the range you used to be able to access this range as well as the 1,000 yard range. Then I believe you had to join the Hassayampa Rod and Gun Club and if you lick their asses the right way and were buddy buddy with the right person you could use it when you wanted. But if you weren't in with the right person you shot matches with the rest of the people. It was a awesome range when the county ran it, I would love to know how the G&F jerks got control of it

+1000. I pay for this crap but have to join a club to use it. Screw them.

Oh, but wait, "the clubs are all good". Yeah but what if you want to take a custom pistol onto the rifle silhouette range. I used to shoot the rams all the time with my custom Contender. Try that now, with a club. Screw them.

Oh yeah, you can invest hundreds of hours to form your own club and get it approved by the G&F idiots so you can use what you already pay for. Screw them.

We can thank insurance companies, risk managers and lawyers for this convoluted user group stuff and it sucks. Covering your ass adequately with liability insurance does not come cheap even if you can find an insurer willing to assume that risk.

Have not heard about inability to use pistol on silhouettes. That is just fugged up if accurate. I shot pistol silhouettes competition for years back in NH. Was that just one club or a global rule??

 

[YNOTAZ]

I did my Thompsons on the rifle silhouette range at the Rams. Verboten nowadays.

I don't know what they do with pistol silhouette since I don't go there anymore.

 

[82echo]

I get that a large public range like BA is not for everyone; don't like it, don't go.

I understand your comment but a large public range isn't large and it isn't public if only 10% is open to the public.

You said, they are attempting to gauge interest. They knew the interest when they took the range over because they had the history of sign in sheets from County and they knew the oprating cost of the range. They chose to close the specialty ranges so the moeny could be better spent on their shiny new office building. Now they might give the specialty ranges back to the public, how many years later?

I didn't word my comment very well. When I stated large public range, I was only referring to the main range. Still, you have a very good point. I believe they have 23 ranges, is sad that only a couple are open to the public. I find the comments about how the county ran the facility interesting, but that was over 20 yrs ago.

I'm not a G&F employee, but I spend a lot of time out there and the asst Range Manager is a friend of mine so am pretty familiar with the operation and their interests. I would suggest that you (and others) take the time to communicate your concerns. I've seem changes out there based on customer feedback. I can pretty much guarantee your concerns will be forwarded to the BASF managers. Complaining on a shooting forum won't help much.

[email protected]

 

[GunSmoke]

Thanks, I've sent an email.

 

[Pro2a]

I'm not a G&F employee, but I spend a lot of time out there and the asst Range Manager is a friend of mine so am pretty familiar with the operation and their interests. I would suggest that you (and others) take the time to communicate your concerns. I've seem changes out there based on customer feedback. I can pretty much guarantee your concerns will be forwarded to the BASF managers. Complaining on a shooting forum won't help much.

[email protected]

You make a great point, if they don't know what they can improve upon, they can't make changes.
It goes along with ANY industry in life. You can't improve customer service if you don't know what's broke.
Keep in mind I don't know the history and politics of the control of this range, I'm just mildly interested in doing IDPA there....Strictly for the idea of operating a firearm under stress.

 

[YNOTAZ]

I get that a large public range like BA is not for everyone; don't like it, don't go.

I understand your comment but a large public range isn't large and it isn't public if only 10% is open to the public.

You said, they are attempting to gauge interest. They knew the interest when they took the range over because they had the history of sign in sheets from County and they knew the oprating cost of the range. They chose to close the specialty ranges so the moeny could be better spent on their shiny new office building. Now they might give the specialty ranges back to the public, how many years later?

I didn't word my comment very well. When I stated large public range, I was only referring to the main range. Still, you have a very good point. I believe they have 23 ranges, is sad that only a couple are open to the public. I find the comments about how the county ran the facility interesting, but that was over 20 yrs ago.

I'm not a G&F employee, but I spend a lot of time out there and the asst Range Manager is a friend of mine so am pretty familiar with the operation and their interests. I would suggest that you (and others) take the time to communicate your concerns. I've seem changes out there based on customer feedback. I can pretty much guarantee your concerns will be forwarded to the BASF managers. Complaining on a shooting forum won't help much.

[email protected]

Thanks for the email address. I will shoot my comments in one more time. I mentioned the other ranges several times to rangemasters when AZGF took over. Crickets and they had the MCC sign in sheets then, so they knew usage. I mentioned it a couple times since then and was given the join a club speech. Now I only go there when it is an absolute need or for the outdoor show.

I will shoot one more comment in with little hope of seeing anything change.

BTW if they ran it like any private business they would have their communications person looking at or monitoring local shooting forums. That is a no brainers, hell years ago companies offered "clipping services" to forward clipped articles about your product or related information, that is such an old-school idea it's idiotic not to monitor your customer base, unless they don't care.

 

[GunSmoke]

So I got a response back from Ben Avery. I was told to find a group that has access, as there is no Public Access. Guess that means I'm right back where I started.

 

[82echo]

Well, crap. Guess I'll have to eat my comment about forwarding a suggestion. That sounds like a response from someone in the front office and not one of the range managers. I'll be back in Phx in a couple of weeks, will hook up with the asst range manager and find out what's going on. All in all, am disappointed in the response you got.

 

[Steve_In_29]

We can thank insurance companies, risk managers and lawyers for this convoluted user group stuff and it sucks. Covering your ass adequately with liability insurance does not come cheap even if you can find an insurer willing to assume that risk.

Have not heard about inability to use pistol on silhouettes. That is just fugged up if accurate. I shot pistol silhouettes competition for years back in NH. Was that just one club or a global rule??

Unless something has changed the NRA provides affordable liability insurance for clubs that affiliate with them.

When I was the vice-prez of a local club in 29 Palms I believe a million dollar liability policy was costing us around $750 a year. Now that was over a decade ago so I understand inflation would have had some affect on that price now.

The Game&Fish Dept is a State Agency and insurance shouldn't be a factor for them.