So long story short, a friend of mine was pulled into an ATF investigation through no fault of his own. He bought a lower from somebody on Backpage several years ago and now that person is being investigated by ATF for something or other. ATF contacted my friend and wanted to interview him, and also apparently asked for the lower he had bought. He refused to cooperate, which was probably a mistake, and during a phone conversation the agent implied they could flag him in the Arizona MVD system and if he were stopped by the police and had firearms in his possession they could order them impounded. Do they have that capability??
ATF flagging people through Motor Vehicles
- Thread starter Cbvanb
- Start date
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"Sorry, think I may have sold that one."
And, how did backpage guy give your friend's info from a FTF transaction?
Short answer, yes, they have that authority. They will also shoot his dog.
If the lower has been reported as stolen, he would be in possession of stolen goods, a class 2 felony.
If he has the lower in question, strip it down and hand it over. If he doesn't own it any longer, tell them that. A new stripped lower is cheap, lawyers fees are not.
If the lower has been reported as stolen, he would be in possession of stolen goods, a class 2 felony.
If he has the lower in question, strip it down and hand it over. If he doesn't own it any longer, tell them that. A new stripped lower is cheap, lawyers fees are not.
Let me guess. Either a BOS or the backpage scumbag wrote down his info, then when caught in an ATF sting, he dropped a dime on your friend.
That's what the exchange of info or the BOS is for, a way to become an informant and walk.
And it's why I don't do either one on an FTF sale. OTOH, I don't deal through Backpage either.
That's what the exchange of info or the BOS is for, a way to become an informant and walk.
And it's why I don't do either one on an FTF sale. OTOH, I don't deal through Backpage either.
This sounds like an attempt at strong-arming. What could they possibly tell MVD to make this person a prohibited possessor, or to make LEOs ask about or search his vehicle for weapons in the first place? Falsify his criminal record?
If they had probable cause they would go to his house at 2AM, shoot his dog, make him crap his pants, ransack his house, seize all his firearms "for examination", haul him in for questioning, etc.
It is not illegal for LEOs to lie. Sounds like that’s what they did to him.
If they had probable cause they would go to his house at 2AM, shoot his dog, make him crap his pants, ransack his house, seize all his firearms "for examination", haul him in for questioning, etc.
It is not illegal for LEOs to lie. Sounds like that’s what they did to him.
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there Is no such thing as you describe. The ATF, nor any other agency, can seize any type of property absent a warrant or incident to arrest.
shooter444
Member
Joe_Blacke said:
Hmmm, seems like I read that somewhere,... OH YAH, it was in the US CONSTITUTION under search and seizure protections of the fourth amendment in the Bill of Rights, I believe!
"[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
ATFE@A right their own regs, anytime they want,... and then enforce them when they want,... been going on for years, imsm.
Crippledtrigger
Member
I may not be as smart as you but that's called probableRanger1 said:
Cause and also falls under various civil forfeiture laws, the latter being theft imho. Catching you committing a crime kinda opens you up to negative consequences.
As for the atf confiscation as threatened it would have to be stolen.
Another dirty trick is holding your shit till you prove ownership, again theft imho but not unheard of. You wont have proof with private transactions.
I would just cooperate after finding out the whole story. Just because you bought something legally doesnt mean you're off the hook if it was stolen. Ask about a certain west German sig and the member phucked over at trial cause it was stolen at some point prior to buying from another former member.
I spoke with the guy again and apparently the person is under investigation for dealing without an FFL. The lower in question wasn’t stolen, they just want it as evidence that the guy was selling guns. Seems like a lot of drama over something like not having an FFL.
shooter444
Member
Flash said:
Yup, just a little Constitutional concept called "innocent until proven guilty"!! Seems like, the more this legal concept is forgotten,... the more violations we see!!
shooter444
Member
Cbvanb said:
My opinion is, this is just another tentacle of the secret state compliance with the One World Government agenda to disarm all people on earth. Targeting flippers, who make a good return on multiple private sales without a FFL, is just like targeting private sellers at gun shows,... just an ever growing assault in our future, if, Patriot Citizens don't wake up and stop this tyranny!!!
Cbvanb said:
That confirms the ATF's comment that they would flag him with MVD was just a strong-arm tactic that the typical schlup would comply with. The "guy" committed no crime, the ATF could go in front of a judge and try to get a warrant to seize the lower as evidence, with a bill of sale as evidence of the sale (how they found the "guy" originally, that likely wouldn't fly, or they can try exactly what they did, intimidate the "guy" into turning it over to be returned in a few years after the trial.
Oh yeah, if the seller pleads out and gets probation, the ATF would hang onto the lower until the end of the probation just in case the seller violates his probation and they have to reinstate the original charges and go back in front of a judge. By the time the "guy" saw his lower again it would probably be a C&R with no parts available for it.
Crippledtrigger
Member
Flash said:
Again, in a perfect world, yes. This world has civil forfeiture laws i.e. legal theft, and you dont even have to be charged for them to take your sheit. They charge your sheit with being naughty or gotten thru naughty means.
He must have sold a lot of lowers to get that kind of attention. I bought a curtain number of lowers from a guy with a FFL because they were cheap. He gave up his FFL and ATFE was going through his books and had seen my 4473. The agent then called me wanted to know what I was going to do with my recievers. I said they are for me. In the future I might trade one off or sell one. But for now they are mine. He asked if I was making and selling weapons. I said no. He asked something else and I asked are we done here. Then that was it.