ATF doing shady stuff with pistol braces again
- Thread starter Cubiclerevolt
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AZ1182 said:
Facts don’t care about your feelings. History is for us to learn from, not ignore because we don’t want to admit our own culpability.
Trump started in this plain and simple. He alone set the precedent. His supporters are accomplices.
Had his base ever actually refused to just blindly support him when he is so egregiously wrong, he wouldn’t have done it. Instead they give him political cover and shield him from any fallout.
Regardless of whatever party you belong to you always have to be willing to hold the people you voted for to account. Otherwise R,D, L aren’t very different from each other. They become self serving.
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AZ1182 said:
First you change the discussion: I don’t care about car, walking, the bus, or the slow train to hell, it is possession. But you appear to throw that in only so you have something to disagree with
Then you almost restate the issue correctly: the paperwork is a non-issue
Then you offer solutions for the “non-issue.
Since this has turned into your inaccurate diatribe, and not a discussion of facts of which you have offered none, carry on with your ignorance, I’m out.
If someone else has a question about ARS and would like to know what is required to avoid the possibility of arrest over an NFA item in the state of Arizona, in their possession, I will be happy to give them referneces.
Basher said:Maybe take the bickering to PMs so the rest of us can focus on the brace issue.
I agree Basher... enough with AZ1182's pontificating. He has trouble staying focused. This should be about the brace issue and what the BAT folks are trying to do.
Apparently AZ1182 is one of those know-it-alls that feeds his buddys bad information. This is Arizona law, nothing to do with vehicles, taxes, insurance, or the color of the moon in AZ1182s world.
For those that have a brain and reading comprehension:
Arizona Revised Statutes - Section 13-3101 (PROHIBITED WEAPONS)
8. "Prohibited weapon":
(a) Includes the following:
(i) An item that is a bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or mine and that is explosive, incendiary or poison gas.
(ii) A device that is designed, made or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.
(iii) A firearm that is capable of shooting more than one shot automatically, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(iv) A rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen inches, or shotgun with a barrel length of less than eighteen inches, or any firearm that is made from a rifle or shotgun and that, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
(v) A breakable container that contains a flammable liquid with a flash point of one hundred fifty degrees Fahrenheit or less and that has a wick or similar device capable of being ignited.
(vi) A chemical or combination of chemicals, compounds or materials, including dry ice, that is possessed or manufactured for the purpose of generating a gas to cause a mechanical failure, rupture or bursting or an explosion or detonation of the chemical or combination of chemicals, compounds or materials.
(vii) An improvised explosive device.
(viii) Any combination of parts or materials that is designed and intended for use in making or converting a device into an item set forth in item (i), (v) or (vii) of this subdivision.
B. The items set forth in subsection A, paragraph 8, subdivision (a), items (i), (ii), (iii) and (iv) of this section do not include any firearms or devices that are possessed, manufactured or transferred in compliance with federal law.
This is plain English directly copied from ARS and here is a link.
https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03101.htm
For those that have a brain and reading comprehension:
Arizona Revised Statutes - Section 13-3101 (PROHIBITED WEAPONS)
8. "Prohibited weapon":
(a) Includes the following:
(i) An item that is a bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or mine and that is explosive, incendiary or poison gas.
(ii) A device that is designed, made or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.
(iii) A firearm that is capable of shooting more than one shot automatically, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(iv) A rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen inches, or shotgun with a barrel length of less than eighteen inches, or any firearm that is made from a rifle or shotgun and that, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
(v) A breakable container that contains a flammable liquid with a flash point of one hundred fifty degrees Fahrenheit or less and that has a wick or similar device capable of being ignited.
(vi) A chemical or combination of chemicals, compounds or materials, including dry ice, that is possessed or manufactured for the purpose of generating a gas to cause a mechanical failure, rupture or bursting or an explosion or detonation of the chemical or combination of chemicals, compounds or materials.
(vii) An improvised explosive device.
(viii) Any combination of parts or materials that is designed and intended for use in making or converting a device into an item set forth in item (i), (v) or (vii) of this subdivision.
B. The items set forth in subsection A, paragraph 8, subdivision (a), items (i), (ii), (iii) and (iv) of this section do not include any firearms or devices that are possessed, manufactured or transferred in compliance with federal law.
This is plain English directly copied from ARS and here is a link.
https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03101.htm
delta6 said:
I hoped so as well...but someone will always fill that role, unfortunately.
Back to the original topic;
Good on Rep Matt Gaetz for making this public...but to anyone who has any experience with the BATFE, it comes as no surprise. It's not like they are the only regulatory agency that makes up the rules as it goes along, but the ATF has needed to be reigned in for decades. Hell, the USPS can't raise the cost of a postage stamp by $.01 without congressional approval, but somehow the BATFE can just decide they want to change how measurement works on a whim, or what constitutes "intent". They have a very bad habit of just dropping charges against people when it appears the judge is going to side with the defendant, so there isn't a legal precedent set that counteracts BATFE "policy". They can't seem to find/keep any director worth a damn...they should have been disbanded decades ago.
XJThrottle said:
You are if you cross state lines (form 5320.20), that’s why I went with a brace rather than an SBR for my wife’s “pistol”.
If I’ve got to jump through those hoops, I’ll just fill it out for one of my select fire M4s, or MP5s and make it a real party!
She travels every month to Texas, and for her the short length and light weight make it a perfect travel weapon along with her choice of handgun.
XJThrottle said:
Sorry, not trying to hate on you.
But a special form is required to travel interstate with an NFA item, not so with a pistol brace.
Were it not for that, I would have just made her a SBR and registered it.
Not directed at you. Certain people keep popping in to further my point....all while trying to argue it.
So, there's this thing with the ATF (surprised someone hasn't chimed in with "it's the BATFE ya know..") trying to fiddle with brace laws?
So, there's this thing with the ATF (surprised someone hasn't chimed in with "it's the BATFE ya know..") trying to fiddle with brace laws?
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