stop feeding the liberal troll, boys, hes in or hes out, thats the kinda person who runs up to the pedestrian that got run over and rifles his pockets, as he wont[ be needing his crap anymore, he'll drink someone esles water but not carry any, you know the bullcrap type. jmo, though, thoughts
Are you an AZCDL member?
- Thread starter jnojr
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I'm a life member, but remember, once you pay your one-time dues, that's it. They continue to incur the costs of your membership (basically communications), but without additional revenue. After a few years, your down payment has been used up. This is the dilemma for every organization that offers life memberships. They have to hope that life members will continue to make voluntary contributions.
In the AzCDL online "store," in addition to hats and t-shirts, you can "buy" (so to speak) voluntary donations. You can put a donation into your "cart" as if it were a purchase.
If you are a life member (of AzCDL or any other organization), throw a few extra bucks their way now and then. Alternatively, but an annual membership in addition to your life membership, so that you can set up recurring donations that way.
In the AzCDL online "store," in addition to hats and t-shirts, you can "buy" (so to speak) voluntary donations. You can put a donation into your "cart" as if it were a purchase.
If you are a life member (of AzCDL or any other organization), throw a few extra bucks their way now and then. Alternatively, but an annual membership in addition to your life membership, so that you can set up recurring donations that way.
No crucifixion! I understand where you're coming from. NRA has set a really bad example. But AZCDL isn't that. We're an all-volunteer organization. Literally ever dollar we collect goes to pay the professionals in the state Capitol that make us so effective, and operations.
AZCDL has been making a difference in this state for twenty years. Literally hundreds of bad laws stopped (and, lately, if any get through we know they'll become law) and lots of good laws passed.
There are millions of gun owners in Arizona. Maybe 1% do anything to protect all of our rights and freedoms. If that number became 10%, there could never be another bad law in this state. But lazy, complacent gun owners who assume "it can't happen here" are wrong... that's what folk in Virginia said when I was working tables at gun shows for VCDL, and in 2018 they were proven wrong, badly. We are going to get Virginia'ed if more of us don't wake up.
At a minimum, you should be signed up for email alerts. You don't have to be a member to do that. Four times a year, our newsletters keep you informed. And, during the legislative session, the state Request to Speak system gets flooded with comments from antis. They outnumber us easily 2:1 or more, because they are motivated to "fix" us. Anyone can get an RTS account at the Capitol in Phoenix, or in a location in Tucson. But AZCDL members can get an account created for them here.
So, there's several easy ways to help make a difference without paying anything. But a membership isn't much... sign up at a gun show and it's as low as $30 a year. A box of ammo costs more. If your rights aren't worth a few bucks per year... I guess I don't know what to say.
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All true.
One of the best ways any member can make a contribution that's worth more than a few bucks is to volunteer at a gun show to spread awareness and help sign up new members. You'll get in the show for free, spend a few hours talking to gun people, and you're helping to multiply our efforts.
Sign up to volunteer here, or DM me or @thom or @YNOTAZ We're frequently setting up tables at events. It isn't hard at all... we can say "We'll train you", but that sounds very serious. We're as much having a good time as trying to promote AZCDL.
Life members bring a couple other things, headcount. It's easier for our lobbyist to sway legislators when he represents larger numbers of people, rather than a couple thousand.
The other thing is that a life member commits more money, to me that indicates that they see more of the value, than someone who throws $40 at it and forgets about it. Your comment shows that you obviously think about the benefit and burden of a life membership to the organization. Contact John for opportunities to volunteer, go to the AZCDL volunteer page and sign up there.
BUT, even better yet, be an ambassador whenever you are with gun folks. When you go to a LGS for ammo, targets, cleaning supplies, ask them if they are aware of AZCDL, ask at shooting ranges, indoor and outdoor, ask you friends when they go out to shoot and are they members. John, Me, Knockonit, and Thom are ambassadors on these forums and elsewhere, but 50 ambassadors, no matter how crappy they are, have more impact than all of us. A casual conversation at a LGS, with a shooting buddy, a family, a friend, goes a lot further than the best sales pitch from a stranger.
OK - I'm not a member for a few reasons...
1) The last time I thought about it I was feeling "poor" (relative term - I know) and didn't think that the $500 for a lifetime membership was a responsible financial decision at the time. I don't do annual subscription stuff for things like this - so it's an all or nothing deal for me. At this point - this thread is the thing reminding me to look at it again...
2) Like @Tacticalplinker - I'm pretty jaded about these sorts of advocacy groups. I'm not saying that any of this is true about AZCDL - but the PATTERN is that advocacy groups take money, add you to the list and then beat the hell out of you for more money for the rest of your natural life while telling you that if you'll only give them a little more, they'll be able to get the job done for you. They promise the world and very often fail to deliver. If they fight hard and lose, but keep fighting - I'm OK with that. If they tell me they are fighting hard, and then roll over looking for belly scratches from the opposing side - I'm not. The NRA, GOP, and others have done all of this after I've given them money. I'm not saying that AZCDL does / will do this - I'm just saying that I've gotten super jaded about such groups. At a glance it looks like they do very good work at the state and local level - but I've got no clue how much I'd come to hate hearing from them if I send them money...
I don't mind a monthly news letter - but if I were to join - and I have to add a new email address to my block list ever week or two because the constant flow of solicitation emails is driving me nuts - I won't be happy.
3) I don't know enough about how AZCDL spends its money. I've poked around on its website, and have found a bit of information about how they are structured (e.g. the bylaws document) but if there's a publicly available balance sheet I've not found it. Again - not saying anything bad about AZCLD - just that I'm jaded - I quit giving money to the Red Cross after finding out that they diverted a huge chunk of what was donated to Katrina relief to building and staffing call centers and paying for exorbitant executive salaries and perks as opposed to providing direct relief to victims of the hurricane. Before I send money - I want to know how it's being spent. Is my lifetime membership paying for 30 minutes of a $1000/hour lawyer (who happens to be the brother of the president) - or is it paying for a year of office supplies because they run a tight ship. It matters to me. My dad spent his whole life working for non-profit organizations. When I was a young engineer in my late 20s my income passed his - and at the time he was a Sr. VP running an organization of about 30 full time paid employees that managed a team of 500+ full time volunteers. He made enough to feed his family - but his 29 year old tech engineer son made more. His organization ran a very tight ship - with between 93% - 95% of annual budget going over-seas to the mission of the organization and 5% - 7% going to salaries and other operating expenses. People donating to them could be assured that their dollars were not funding private jet travel or weekends at the Four Seasons Resort. This set my expectations for charitable things that I choose to support. Reading the leadership bios it looks like they may all be volunteers (or at least most of them). If money is spent wisely / frugally I'm totally game to send them some. That said - the fact that I can't find some sort of budget or balance sheet worries me.
So... if the answers to #2 and #3 are reasonable - I may join the team...
1) The last time I thought about it I was feeling "poor" (relative term - I know) and didn't think that the $500 for a lifetime membership was a responsible financial decision at the time. I don't do annual subscription stuff for things like this - so it's an all or nothing deal for me. At this point - this thread is the thing reminding me to look at it again...
2) Like @Tacticalplinker - I'm pretty jaded about these sorts of advocacy groups. I'm not saying that any of this is true about AZCDL - but the PATTERN is that advocacy groups take money, add you to the list and then beat the hell out of you for more money for the rest of your natural life while telling you that if you'll only give them a little more, they'll be able to get the job done for you. They promise the world and very often fail to deliver. If they fight hard and lose, but keep fighting - I'm OK with that. If they tell me they are fighting hard, and then roll over looking for belly scratches from the opposing side - I'm not. The NRA, GOP, and others have done all of this after I've given them money. I'm not saying that AZCDL does / will do this - I'm just saying that I've gotten super jaded about such groups. At a glance it looks like they do very good work at the state and local level - but I've got no clue how much I'd come to hate hearing from them if I send them money...
I don't mind a monthly news letter - but if I were to join - and I have to add a new email address to my block list ever week or two because the constant flow of solicitation emails is driving me nuts - I won't be happy.3) I don't know enough about how AZCDL spends its money. I've poked around on its website, and have found a bit of information about how they are structured (e.g. the bylaws document) but if there's a publicly available balance sheet I've not found it. Again - not saying anything bad about AZCLD - just that I'm jaded - I quit giving money to the Red Cross after finding out that they diverted a huge chunk of what was donated to Katrina relief to building and staffing call centers and paying for exorbitant executive salaries and perks as opposed to providing direct relief to victims of the hurricane. Before I send money - I want to know how it's being spent. Is my lifetime membership paying for 30 minutes of a $1000/hour lawyer (who happens to be the brother of the president) - or is it paying for a year of office supplies because they run a tight ship. It matters to me. My dad spent his whole life working for non-profit organizations. When I was a young engineer in my late 20s my income passed his - and at the time he was a Sr. VP running an organization of about 30 full time paid employees that managed a team of 500+ full time volunteers. He made enough to feed his family - but his 29 year old tech engineer son made more. His organization ran a very tight ship - with between 93% - 95% of annual budget going over-seas to the mission of the organization and 5% - 7% going to salaries and other operating expenses. People donating to them could be assured that their dollars were not funding private jet travel or weekends at the Four Seasons Resort. This set my expectations for charitable things that I choose to support. Reading the leadership bios it looks like they may all be volunteers (or at least most of them). If money is spent wisely / frugally I'm totally game to send them some. That said - the fact that I can't find some sort of budget or balance sheet worries me.
So... if the answers to #2 and #3 are reasonable - I may join the team...
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Nate, Simple answers:
#2. AZCDL spends almost all of its money on paper literature, a web site that is anemic due to such little funding, and a lobbying firm that has lobbied for every positive gun control bill passed in Arizona for the past 10 years and against every that restricts firearms. In this past legislative session there were 34 anti-gun bills introduced and eliminated. The previous session saw 25 bills and the one before that saw 20 bills. As you can see the number of bills per session is increasing. AZCDL enlisted the help of other organizations to sue Pima county because they would not rescind their illegal anti-gun bill. The court just forced them Pima to rescind the law and cover attorney fees. As far as emails, it is just the opposite. AZCDL has an outside source that handles emails. They do this so then can tell if the emails are being read, if links are being clicked etc. There is no sense doing anything if you can't track the efficacy of what you are doing. The only emails are concerning new legislation both pro and con to firearms. The big problem is this service drops your name from the list if your email gets bounced. I am on a Microsoft email and mine has been bounced at least 4 times over the years and I've had to sign up again for emails. Just recently some hacker got Microsoft servers, outlook, hotmail, live, and msn, listed as spam generators and cause over 5,000 names to be dropped. The service automatically reentered those names but only after AZCDL brought this to their attention. If it hadn't been pointed out, the automation would have just Shiat-canned 5,000 AZCDL members from the email list.
Answer to #3: All AZCDL people are volunteers, Like Thom, John, Me, and RJ. There is no money being spent on travel, dinners, hotels, drinks or anything else. All expenses are to further firearms freedom in AZ. We use one firm that not only lobbies the state legislators, but review county and municipal code for firearms overreach. Two very recent examples are Pima county and the city of Sedona.
Most people outside of AZCDL will never be aware of these illegal gun laws until they're stung by them, then they put on their stupid face and say WTF happened.
I'm happy to answer any other questions.
I had to add a PS here:
The organizations you subscribe to like USCCA. will help defend you in a lawful use of a firearm. They will not take up your case if you are charged under a Pima county law or a City of Sedona ordinance where the ordinance is what actually has to be challenged. Your action is unlawful, even if the law you violated a law or ordinance, that is contrary to state law or the US Constitution. They do not go after cities, states or the federal government to change laws.
#2. AZCDL spends almost all of its money on paper literature, a web site that is anemic due to such little funding, and a lobbying firm that has lobbied for every positive gun control bill passed in Arizona for the past 10 years and against every that restricts firearms. In this past legislative session there were 34 anti-gun bills introduced and eliminated. The previous session saw 25 bills and the one before that saw 20 bills. As you can see the number of bills per session is increasing. AZCDL enlisted the help of other organizations to sue Pima county because they would not rescind their illegal anti-gun bill. The court just forced them Pima to rescind the law and cover attorney fees. As far as emails, it is just the opposite. AZCDL has an outside source that handles emails. They do this so then can tell if the emails are being read, if links are being clicked etc. There is no sense doing anything if you can't track the efficacy of what you are doing. The only emails are concerning new legislation both pro and con to firearms. The big problem is this service drops your name from the list if your email gets bounced. I am on a Microsoft email and mine has been bounced at least 4 times over the years and I've had to sign up again for emails. Just recently some hacker got Microsoft servers, outlook, hotmail, live, and msn, listed as spam generators and cause over 5,000 names to be dropped. The service automatically reentered those names but only after AZCDL brought this to their attention. If it hadn't been pointed out, the automation would have just Shiat-canned 5,000 AZCDL members from the email list.
Answer to #3: All AZCDL people are volunteers, Like Thom, John, Me, and RJ. There is no money being spent on travel, dinners, hotels, drinks or anything else. All expenses are to further firearms freedom in AZ. We use one firm that not only lobbies the state legislators, but review county and municipal code for firearms overreach. Two very recent examples are Pima county and the city of Sedona.
Most people outside of AZCDL will never be aware of these illegal gun laws until they're stung by them, then they put on their stupid face and say WTF happened.
I'm happy to answer any other questions.
I had to add a PS here:
The organizations you subscribe to like USCCA. will help defend you in a lawful use of a firearm. They will not take up your case if you are charged under a Pima county law or a City of Sedona ordinance where the ordinance is what actually has to be challenged. Your action is unlawful, even if the law you violated a law or ordinance, that is contrary to state law or the US Constitution. They do not go after cities, states or the federal government to change laws.
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I am a member solely because I do not have time, resources, knowledge nor language capacity to challenge 2a issues on my own in court or senate and house. Having someone to do that for me is convenient and while not all their issues are mine enough overlap to be of worth.
Secondly, I left NRA. I told them to stop calling for donations as due to inability to ensure who I am speaking with I do not give any personal, payment or even say yes to incoming calls. I have dealt with too much fraud in my line of work to do so. I told them snail mail me, they called once too often....
Lastly, as many of you know I am law enforcement. You absolutely need an organization such az azcdl watching out for you. While I am absolutely certain 95% or more of the officers I train know who they serve you need to realize, if the wrong people get in office, you do not have many generations of peace officers left in before they are phased out by people coming in as we older move out. Given 15 or even 20yrs with the wrong people in office your peace officers of the current brand are gone or nearly gone and our protections of you at risk with new generations now educated by those who do not think the way we do.
Thus your liberties are always at risk on the horizon. Your thoughts of fighting back physically are poor. While you, yourself can throw up a decent fight it is one person one fight. The ability to call in resources and compatriots is very low here. Unlike the revolution, viet nam or even the current middle east issues, we rely on our electronic network for help. And the ability for the government to consolidate force is much much quicker than anyone signing our precious freedoms could have imagined.
When you become a point of interest, your ability to converge is severely limited if not eliminated in hours if not minutes. Your fight is not physical it is in the lobbies, after reading dinner meetings and across conference tables. It is in your voting power.
You need organizations such as azcdl, even if they win one fight for you it is a win.
Secondly, I left NRA. I told them to stop calling for donations as due to inability to ensure who I am speaking with I do not give any personal, payment or even say yes to incoming calls. I have dealt with too much fraud in my line of work to do so. I told them snail mail me, they called once too often....
Lastly, as many of you know I am law enforcement. You absolutely need an organization such az azcdl watching out for you. While I am absolutely certain 95% or more of the officers I train know who they serve you need to realize, if the wrong people get in office, you do not have many generations of peace officers left in before they are phased out by people coming in as we older move out. Given 15 or even 20yrs with the wrong people in office your peace officers of the current brand are gone or nearly gone and our protections of you at risk with new generations now educated by those who do not think the way we do.
Thus your liberties are always at risk on the horizon. Your thoughts of fighting back physically are poor. While you, yourself can throw up a decent fight it is one person one fight. The ability to call in resources and compatriots is very low here. Unlike the revolution, viet nam or even the current middle east issues, we rely on our electronic network for help. And the ability for the government to consolidate force is much much quicker than anyone signing our precious freedoms could have imagined.
When you become a point of interest, your ability to converge is severely limited if not eliminated in hours if not minutes. Your fight is not physical it is in the lobbies, after reading dinner meetings and across conference tables. It is in your voting power.
You need organizations such as azcdl, even if they win one fight for you it is a win.
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