Advice re Recoil Mitigation On Light Rifles

[BigNate]

A close friend has a couple of early teen sons who recently were drawn for youth elk tags. The boys have both been shooting a few times but nothing heavier than a 5.56 AR and they are both pretty slender (about 90 lbs). Grandpa bought each of the boys a Savage Axis II in 30-06. These are very light, composite stock rifles and to ethically hunt elk with them they'll probably want to be shooting a full power / heavier bullet cartridge - so recoil is a concern. They won't be shooting something super hot - - but also thinking that light bullet reduced recoil stuff wouldn't be appropriate either.

The boys' dad does not want to create bad shooting habits / recoil aversion and came to me looking for advice. The boys are "all boy" and not particularly soft kiddos - but they are also 90 lb kids without a ton of shooting experience under their belt. They will be sighting these in themselves (with coaching) and getting to know their rifles.

Anyway dad is thinking about having the barrels cut for a brake and looking at limb-savers etc. I'm going to take them all out shooting with a "ladder" of cartridges that they cans shoot - working up to their 30-06 (thinking .223, .243, .308, then 30-06).

So - any other advice? I've never had a hunting rifle barrel cut for a brake - thoughts on having that done? Any recommendations for North Valley gunsmiths who might do this for him?

Thanks in advance...

 

[QuietM4]

The Savage Axis barrels, particularly the lighter models, don’t have enough barrel diameter to safely thread. You *might be able to thread them 9/16x24, and then use a threaded jam nut to create an artificial barrel shoulder, but that is a maybe. The barrel diameter is just too thin. Minimum spec for threading that caliber of rifle is around 0.625” or so, and the Axis barrels are thinner than that.

A nice limbsaver butt pad is about all you can do, easily.

 

[BigNate]

The Savage Axis barrels, particularly the lighter models, don’t have enough barrel diameter to safely thread. You *might be able to thread them 9/16x24, and then use a threaded jam nut to create an artificial barrel shoulder, but that is a maybe. The barrel diameter is just too thin. Minimum spec for threading that caliber of rifle is around 0.625” or so, and the Axis barrels are thinner than that.

A nice limbsaver butt pad is about all you can do, easily.

Thanks much... I was worried that might be the answer...

 

[QuietM4]

The Savage Axis barrels, particularly the lighter models, don’t have enough barrel diameter to safely thread. You *might be able to thread them 9/16x24, and then use a threaded jam nut to create an artificial barrel shoulder, but that is a maybe. The barrel diameter is just too thin. Minimum spec for threading that caliber of rifle is around 0.625” or so, and the Axis barrels are thinner than that.

A nice limbsaver butt pad is about all you can do, easily.

Thanks much... I was worried that might be the answer...

I was slightly off on my minimum barrel diameters; for 5/8x24 threads, the min OD is 0.725", while for 9/16x24 the min OD is 0.662". The barrel OD of that Savage is going to be closer to the .550" or less realm.

 

[jrleen]

In my experiance the best is to give them lots of range time. With 22's to mag runs on your AR's, AK's, shotguns or whatever you got and then mix with occasional bench time on the Axis. Using a good amount of shooting rest bags. Over time you can increase from a few shots to running strings of 5. Gradually they will become more comfortable without the pressure surrounding a rush to the larger caliber. I cannot tell you how many times my kids downed an elk or deer and asked after if they felt the recoil? Traditionally it is one shot but even after 2 almost every time standing, sitting they could not remember. Recoil control is always in play regardless of how much experiance you have. I have it after a long stretch of not shooting my different higher caliber firearms. Experiance trumps messing with the firearm. I would go with saving $$ to modify a gun which may not appeal later to them or others on resale will pay for ammo. Just IMHO

 

[BigNate]

In my experiance the best is to give them lots of range time. With 22's to mag runs on your AR's, AK's, shotguns or whatever you got and then mix with occasional bench time on the Axis. Using a good amount of shooting rest bags. Over time you can increase from a few shots to running strings of 5. Gradually they will become more comfortable without the pressure surrounding a rush to the larger caliber. I cannot tell you how many times my kids downed an elk or deer and asked after if they felt the recoil? Traditionally it is one shot but even after 2 almost every time standing, sitting they could not remember. Recoil control is always in play regardless of how much experiance you have. I have it after a long stretch of not shooting my different higher caliber firearms. Experiance trumps messing with the firearm. I would go with saving $$ to modify a gun which may not appeal later to them or others on resale will pay for ammo. Just IMHO

Thanks much... this is largely how I see it too... I'm not terribly worried about the shot(s) on the day of the hunt - that will be covered in the adrenaline dump - but we do want them to have put more than a round or two through their rifles at the range and want to mitigate the risk that that is uncomfortable enough that it causes them to flinch on hunt day. I'm thinking that I might suggest that do the following for practice:
1) More practice with other bolt action rifles (the 243 and I have a heavy .308)
2) Add the limbsaver (or something like it) to their rifles
3) Add some weight to their rifles for range days between now and then - and remove it for the hunt. Not sure how viable this will be - but who knows - maybe I can find something that attaches to the sling lug...
4) Buy some reduced recoil 30-06 rounds that the boys can shoot at the range
(https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/30-06-springfield-125-gr-sst-custom-lite#!/ )
5) Have dad / grandpa / me zero their rifles with the rounds that they'll hunt with.

If we can make range days "easy" - the heavier recoil on the hunt day is not likely to be an issue in the long run.

 

[BigNate]

I was slightly off on my minimum barrel diameters; for 5/8x24 threads, the min OD is 0.725", while for 9/16x24 the min OD is 0.662". The barrel OD of that Savage is going to be closer to the .550" or less realm.

Thanks again... sounds like it is a non-starter... I talked with dad... I think we're going the route in the post above...

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Thanks much... this is largely how I see it too... I'm not terribly worried about the shot(s) on the day of the hunt - that will be covered in the adrenaline dump - but we do want them to have put more than a round or two through their rifles at the range and want to mitigate the risk that that is uncomfortable enough that it causes them to flinch on hunt day. I'm thinking that I might suggest that do the following for practice:
1) More practice with other bolt action rifles (the 243 and I have a heavy .308)
2) Add the limbsaver (or something like it) to their rifles
3) Add some weight to their rifles for range days between now and then - and remove it for the hunt. Not sure how viable this will be - but who knows - maybe I can find something that attaches to the sling lug...
4) Buy some reduced recoil 30-06 rounds that the boys can shoot at the range
(https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/30-06-springfield-125-gr-sst-custom-lite#!/ )
5) Have dad / grandpa / me zero their rifles with the rounds that they'll hunt with.

If we can make range days "easy" - the heavier recoil on the hunt day is not likely to be an issue in the long run.

Just have them shoot a single shot 12GA a few times while sitting on the rest, after that, their "felt recoil" won't be much with the Savage :mrgreen:

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[BigNate]

Just have them shoot a single shot 12GA a few times while sitting on the rest, after that, their "felt recoil" won't be much with the Savage :mrgreen:

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

I'll make sure to load up a 3-1/2" magnum high velocity goose or turkey round for them - in the super light polymer stock 12ga... that'll make them love shooting... :?

Reminds me of the idiot at the table next to me a few years ago who had his elderly mother out for her first time shooting - and I watch him hand her a snubby .357, loaded with 158gr 357 wad cutters (box was on the table). She pulled off one round and wouldn't touch it again. I had my heavy barreled Buckmark 22 out... I offered to let her shoot it both before she shot his revolver and after... before - he declined and gave me a disgusted "I've got this" look... and after she declined, giving me the "I'm never touching a gun again" look. I'm amazed at how dumb some folks can be... (unless his intent was to turn her off of shooting forever - in which case he showed real genius)... <rolleyes>

 

[Azgunlover69]

The Savage Axis barrels, particularly the lighter models, don’t have enough barrel diameter to safely thread. You *might be able to thread them 9/16x24, and then use a threaded jam nut to create an artificial barrel shoulder, but that is a maybe. The barrel diameter is just too thin. Minimum spec for threading that caliber of rifle is around 0.625” or so, and the Axis barrels are thinner than that.

A nice limbsaver butt pad is about all you can do, easily.

Thanks much... I was worried that might be the answer...

I was slightly off on my minimum barrel diameters; for 5/8x24 threads, the min OD is 0.725", while for 9/16x24 the min OD is 0.662". The barrel OD of that Savage is going to be closer to the .550" or less realm.

Could a brake be drilled into the barrel by adding ports?
@OP, the felt recoil will suck target shooting, but if they're on an elk and pull that trigger, they won't feel a thing. Adrenaline does crazy things to the body.

 

[QuietM4]

You could port the barrel, but they are very ineffective compared to a muzzle brake, and porting the barrel may cost more than the rifle. The best company would be Magnaport, but their barrel porting is 15% reduction at best...you will barely fell the difference.

 

[BigNate]

I think the decision has been made to leave the barrel alone. I've got a youth "handi rifle" in .243 that they are going to shoot - and we are going to order some reduced recoil 30-06 to ensure that they put some rounds through the 30-06's before the hunt - but we're thinking that the first time they put a full power (elk appropriate) round through them would be when they have sights on target in the field. They will probably put a limbsaver on the guns as well.

 

[XJThrottle]

You or your buddy might want to verify zeros between the reduced recoil and what they will be loaded up during the hunt.

 

[BigNate]

You or your buddy might want to verify zeros between the reduced recoil and what they will be loaded up during the hunt.

Thanks - Yep - Dad (or me) is going to re-zero with their game rounds.

 

[Yellowcarbon]

Teach them proper recoil management by doing the push/pull hold that is normally associated with a shotgun. By pulling the gun into you with one hand and pushing forward with the other, it helps tame recoil. Also snug up to the gun so it pushes rather than slaps if there is a gap. Limbsavers help, but also look for a neoprene cheek rest. I have found cheek slap by the stock feels worst to the shooter than is really is. Our faces are very sensitive and the slap is definitely felt.

 

[BigNate]

Teach them proper recoil management by doing the push/pull hold that is normally associated with a shotgun. By pulling the gun into you with one hand and pushing forward with the other, it helps tame recoil. Also snug up to the gun so it pushes rather than slaps if there is a gap. Limbsavers help, but also look for a neoprene cheek rest. I have found cheek slap by the stock feels worst to the shooter than is really is. Our faces are very sensitive and the slap is definitely felt.

Thanks much... we are teaching proper rifle shoulder engagement etc. Hadn't thought of the cheek rest. I've never had an issue with that (cheek slap) - but I can imagine that it amplifies as a function of the amount of movement in the stock on firing (thinking - good cheek weld but poor shoulder contact / support). On the other hand - most of what I shoot doesn't have enough umph to dramatically move the shoulder attached to my 300lb body... Again - thanks - something else to consider.

 

[Lucafu1]

You can cut it down and thread it or get a clamp on (ugly). I personally wouldnt waste the money on all that work for an axis.

The cheapest and easiest route would probably be to sell the rifles and buy some with a brake already installed (Ruger American Go Wild is a good example). Theyre priced right and insanely accurate for the cost.

My daughter (same size) also has an elk hunt and will probably use a AR10 (mainly for quick follow up shots) but not positive because its heavy. She does have a 7mm-08 bolt but I am planning take her out soon and shoot a few magnums (.270 - .338) and see how she does HAHA. Theyre all braked.

 

[BigNate]

You can cut it down and thread it or get a clamp on (ugly). I personally wouldnt waste the money on all that work for an axis.

The cheapest and easiest route would probably be to sell the rifles and buy some with a brake already installed (Ruger American Go Wild is a good example). Theyre priced right and insanely accurate for the cost.

My daughter (same size) also has an elk hunt and will probably use a AR10 (mainly for quick follow up shots) but not positive because its heavy. She does have a 7mm-08 bolt but I am planning take her out soon and shoot a few magnums (.270 - .338) and see how she does HAHA. Theyre all braked.

Thanks sir... I actually thought about offering up an AR-10 - but my only options are an AR-10T (.308 that weighs about 20 lbs with the long bull barrel) - and an 8.6blk SBR... so... unless I get to go on the hunt with them... that's an issue...

Also - thanks for the chuckle... as I read your last sentence and what went through my twisted mind was you handing your 90lb daughter a synthetic stock .338 RUM to "see how she does... "

 

[Lucafu1]

Yes sir no problem!

Yeah she has begun complaining about recoil. Since I am mean I will make her shoot the big guns every once in awhile and make fun of her to toughen her up. HAHA.