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They won't it will be vandalized, in a discussion with SIL who is forest ranger for tonto, they the public destroy everything guess they shoot the shiat outta the restrooms, signs, trash cans, dumpsters, posts, you name it. along with leaving as much trash as a carnival.
it will be no different here or any of the sites, the answer to curing alot of this is to police it hard for a given period and the WORD will get out, but still some will have to be their stupid arse selves and do what we all hate, litter our yard.
educate, educate and then if not, punish severly
Rj
it will be no different here or any of the sites, the answer to curing alot of this is to police it hard for a given period and the WORD will get out, but still some will have to be their stupid arse selves and do what we all hate, litter our yard.
educate, educate and then if not, punish severly
Rj
Just like every other "improvement", once built they will close all other options then hold access to the sites ransom for more money. State, County or individual fees will be the only thing to keep them from locking the gate.knockonit said:
If you could see what they have done so far..... Phukn A.
They pissed away more money on a fence going straight up a 70 degree climb for liability. They could have probably improved 100 shooting site for the cost of their liability protection at one site.
Wait until the first accident, then what, range Nazis, open/closed hours, restricted targets, no human looking targets, shooting breaks every 15 minutes, BA light or maybe not so light.
A load of crap delivered in kool aid.
They pissed away more money on a fence going straight up a 70 degree climb for liability. They could have probably improved 100 shooting site for the cost of their liability protection at one site.
Wait until the first accident, then what, range Nazis, open/closed hours, restricted targets, no human looking targets, shooting breaks every 15 minutes, BA light or maybe not so light.
A load of crap delivered in kool aid.
AZHTfreak said:
Notice of the Closure of the Church Camp Road/Saddleback Mountain, and Box Canyon Areas for Construction (p1)
Wed, Oct 7, 2020 6:09 am
PDO_PDOEA, BLM_AZ [email protected]
The Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Phoenix District Office, announces the closure of three areas for the construction of recreational shooting sports sites at Saddleback Mountain, Church Camp Road, and Box Canyon.
In January 2020 the BLM approved the construction of five recreational shooting sports sites near the Phoenix metropolitan area. Badly Mountain, located west of Lake Pleasant, has been under construction since May 2020, and construction is anticipated to be completed by mid or late November 2020. The BLM will make a separate announcement when this facility is available for public use.
The closure of public lands adjacent to the Saddleback Mountain and Church Camp Road sites (off State Route 74/Carefree Highway) will go into EFFECT on November 6, 2020. The closure of public lands adjacent to the Box Canyon site (off N Hidden Valley Road) will go into effect on November 12, 2020. Each site will remain closed to public entry for a period of up to six months during construction to allow for worker safety. The BLM will make a separate announcement when these facilities are available for public use.
Due to the current fire restriction order, public lands are currently closed to the discharge of firearms for target shooting.
The BLM has not received funding to construct the Narramore Road site (off W Narramore Road). Funding may become available in 2021.
No additional recreational shooting sports sites are being considered at this time.
For a map of the closure areas, designs of the shooting sites, and other information on the Recreational Shooting Sports Project, go to the project website at: https://go.usa.gov/xmfVv (case sensitive). For more information, contact Braden Yardley, Project Manager/Outdoor Recreation Planner, at: 623-580-5500 or [email protected].
Azgunlover69 said:
Really? One very small area for pistol shooting, can’t use your own targets for sighting in, Can’t go down range to set up targets, the theory is you shoot and move off the line to the rear to reload so idiots behind you handling loaded firearms, the shooting tree is almost always broken, you can’t pick up your brass past the firing line, can’t go past firing line to set up a Chrono.
The good news is another member and I got high, for free, from the whacky weed wafting from a car full of wanna-be gangbangers when they opened their car door. Then they walked down the range and one of them started with the belt-loop full auto with his mini Draco. Oh yeah, forgot, one family packed up and left when the wanna-bes started slinging led.
They do serve a purpose, yes, but they are only “wonderful” when compared to Ben Avery in a very limited sense. They don’t hold a candle to desert shooting away from idiots, they cost millions and have yet to open the baldy mountain range after we pointed out one of their construction flaws to them almost 2 months ago.
BUTT hell, it’s only a few million dollars pissed away and almost 6,000 acres closed to shooting.
I see your points and understand. For me I used it to sight in some pistols, ar platforms and it worked great for that purpose. I didn't have to sling out my truckload of steel as it's already down there and setup. It was quick and easy, I went during the week and there were 3 other shooters all decent with firearm handling. It's a concrete slab and provided brooms and dustpan make it easy to save brass. Huge time saver for me when I want a quickie at the range.YNOTAZ said:
It won't compare to the desert if you want to do drills, run and gun, have different type of targets or shoot for precision to see moa etc...
There is a long range portion that's 200-700 yds I plan to hit soon to sight in some 308s and check accuracy on steel soon. Again for my current purpose it is very appealing, tho like I said there is a place for desert shooting as well.
Make no mistake, they are pretty good for the purpose they serve but nothing else. Even AZGF agrees they deviated from the initial design so much that they are horrible. I have no gripe with these ranges, but they are no worth sacrificing almost 6,000 acres of desert shooting.
Current shortcomings,
You can't use a chrono unless you have a lab radar
You can't set up your own targets with sighting squares to accurately sight in a sub MOA rifle
You can't test reloads for accuracy
The steel targets are not painted often enough to get even a good feel of accuracy
You can't paint their steel targets
You can't pick up your brass if it ejects forward past the firing line
If you are in the end, southmost station of the small and only pistol range, you can't pick up your brass if it goes past the fence, past your immediate reach
The stones just past the firing line are full of brass that people are not allowed to pick up. And there is no way to get it up for maintenance of the range.
The shooting tree was designed by an idiot, doesn't lean forward enough so the targets stick in back out of sight, then somebody shoots it cross-range to help you out. That is if the welds aren't broken
The pistol caliber only signs look like they were done by first-time ghetto gang initiates.
When the guy with the 50BMG show up with the muzzle break that nocks your hat off, your shooting is done for the day.
When the guy shows up with the sub-gun on the small pistol range and starts pelting you with brass at 1,000rpms, you sit it out and wait or you're done for the day.
The worst part is the presumption of some form of control since it is a designated shooting area with structures, parking, picnic tables, and bathrooms. Shooters get pelted with the brass from a guy who just bought his High point, and wants to do mag dumps while holding it sideways. People look around for somebody to do something when the beltloop full auto guy shows up. Nobody knows what to do with the guys swiping the entire shooting line with the AKs and ARs.
You are right, if you go during the week, when it is lightly used, you can easily bang some steel but one thing you should know, this is a pilot program. It is the first in the nation. The next area will be Table Mesa road with a "similar facility", likely after a several year closure during construction. Then more thousands of acres will be closed to desert shooting. These are "models" for the BLM nationally and this comes directly from the regional manager of BLM.
If you just sit back and say nothing or that "these are wonderful", without expressing the loss of "run and gun", "different types of targets", or "sub-moa" rifles, you will get more of these and mores desert closures, nationally. If you know anything at all about construction, think about the cost of the fencing alone and how that amount could have been better used to clean up existing desert sites for decades.
If you just sit back and watch, you will join the crowd getting 45 minute stints at Ben Avery or going indoors.
Current shortcomings,
You can't use a chrono unless you have a lab radar
You can't set up your own targets with sighting squares to accurately sight in a sub MOA rifle
You can't test reloads for accuracy
The steel targets are not painted often enough to get even a good feel of accuracy
You can't paint their steel targets
You can't pick up your brass if it ejects forward past the firing line
If you are in the end, southmost station of the small and only pistol range, you can't pick up your brass if it goes past the fence, past your immediate reach
The stones just past the firing line are full of brass that people are not allowed to pick up. And there is no way to get it up for maintenance of the range.
The shooting tree was designed by an idiot, doesn't lean forward enough so the targets stick in back out of sight, then somebody shoots it cross-range to help you out. That is if the welds aren't broken
The pistol caliber only signs look like they were done by first-time ghetto gang initiates.
When the guy with the 50BMG show up with the muzzle break that nocks your hat off, your shooting is done for the day.
When the guy shows up with the sub-gun on the small pistol range and starts pelting you with brass at 1,000rpms, you sit it out and wait or you're done for the day.
The worst part is the presumption of some form of control since it is a designated shooting area with structures, parking, picnic tables, and bathrooms. Shooters get pelted with the brass from a guy who just bought his High point, and wants to do mag dumps while holding it sideways. People look around for somebody to do something when the beltloop full auto guy shows up. Nobody knows what to do with the guys swiping the entire shooting line with the AKs and ARs.
You are right, if you go during the week, when it is lightly used, you can easily bang some steel but one thing you should know, this is a pilot program. It is the first in the nation. The next area will be Table Mesa road with a "similar facility", likely after a several year closure during construction. Then more thousands of acres will be closed to desert shooting. These are "models" for the BLM nationally and this comes directly from the regional manager of BLM.
If you just sit back and say nothing or that "these are wonderful", without expressing the loss of "run and gun", "different types of targets", or "sub-moa" rifles, you will get more of these and mores desert closures, nationally. If you know anything at all about construction, think about the cost of the fencing alone and how that amount could have been better used to clean up existing desert sites for decades.
If you just sit back and watch, you will join the crowd getting 45 minute stints at Ben Avery or going indoors.
The ranges they built will only attract amateur gun owners. The ranges seem like a good idea to amatueurs, but experienced shooters will avoid them like the plague. They are nothing but a clever way for BLM to restrict all types of shooting on BLM land. You want to keep shooting at Table Mesa rd? Do it while you can, because as soon as they start constructing the range out there, it will be closed to desert shooting forever. "But we built a nice range that you can shoot at", BLM will say.
Anyone want to place a bet as to when the first injury or death occurs due to amatuer shooter induced negligence? What then? Will they close all the ranges? Most likely.
Anyone want to place a bet as to when the first injury or death occurs due to amatuer shooter induced negligence? What then? Will they close all the ranges? Most likely.
So far, in all the years of desert shooting in Arizona there has only been one verified death due to a shooting accident. That happened at Miller road around I-10. When we met with BLM they mentioned a second killing near lake pleasant but were informed that it was a homicide and already indicated as part of a drug deal.
Based on the facts and my experience at the two open ranges and a tour of the third range, still closed, I am much safer shooting in the desert.
And QM4 is correct, Table Mesa road is next. It is already in the planning stage and likely will not have public meetings based on "everything they've already learned" from the three ranges out by lake pleasant.
Based on the facts and my experience at the two open ranges and a tour of the third range, still closed, I am much safer shooting in the desert.
And QM4 is correct, Table Mesa road is next. It is already in the planning stage and likely will not have public meetings based on "everything they've already learned" from the three ranges out by lake pleasant.
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