Firearm hold/appeal

[samnev]

Now I'm very happy I have a very uncommon name.

[shooter444]

buncha whiney little biatches, jeebus h christ you asked on the internet, wtf did you expect, ugh.
go to the source............and get the real skinny rather than rely on idgits from the interwebs

just saying
jeebus h christy
Rj

Awww, come on now Knockonit,... this is just NOT A TRUE statement,...

jcbrown wrote: ↑August 28th, 2018, 4:29 pm
Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN. You still have to fill out the 4473, and it will be rejected without it. I've written my UPN on the back of my CCW so I have it when I buy.

[knockonit]

LOL, sure it is, i can tell you i do not have an upn number unless its a secret to the fed, as i do not apply it, nor is it on my ccw, so not sure who what and where and frankly while i ask question on the interwebs, its mostly to see who thinks they know what , who and where, then i just do the research to see the validity of most comments, hehehe, whilst i like everyone, just not what they have to say. lol

happy holiday, i'm gonna call it a day as of now and find some place to get into trouble
Rj

[delta6]

buncha whiney little biatches, jeebus h christ you asked on the internet, wtf did you expect, ugh.
go to the source............and get the real skinny rather than rely on idgits from the interwebs

just saying
jeebus h christy
Rj

Awww, come on now Knockonit,... this is just NOT A TRUE statement,...

jcbrown wrote: ↑August 28th, 2018, 4:29 pm
Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN. You still have to fill out the 4473, and it will be rejected without it. I've written my UPN on the back of my CCW so I have it when I buy.

Again to paraphrase the Gipper..
The trouble with our (fill in the blank) friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.

Having been a dealer for 42 years, I can assure you your statement is incorrect. First it is a UPIN not a UPN. Secondly, the UPIN (Unique Personal Identification Number) is in a Voluntary Appeal File held by the FBI. You voluntarily apply and ask for a number.

Quote from the 4473: "For transferees/buyers approved to have information maintained about them in the FBI NICS Voluntary Appeal File, NICS will provide them with a UPIN, which the transferee/buyer should record in question 9."

You apply for a UPIN. Not many people have them, because for 99% of the buyers they do not need one. As someone mentioned above, if you have a very common name like Joe Smith a UPIN might be nice to have to get thru the confusion of another Joe Smith having just committed a felony. Having said that, of the 3 (that I recall) 4473's that I submitted with a UPIN, all were delayed. So much for government efficiency.

Arizona is a great state in that they allow transferees (w/CCW) to by-pass the NICS check altogether. As "deanq" stated, if you have an AZ CCW no need for a NICS check and definitely no need for a UPIN.

[shooter444]

So,... Delta6,... this statement is incorrect?

"Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN. You still have to fill out the 4473, and it will be rejected without it."

Right?

[delta6]

So,... Delta6,... this statement is incorrect?

"Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN. You still have to fill out the 4473, and it will be rejected without it."

Right?

Well..yes and no... kinda....
Let me clarify....
Yes, if you buy a gun from a dealer you have to fill out a 4473.
You have to undergo a NICS background check, except in AZ (maybe other states with this exemption), you can by-pass the NICS background check if you have a valid AZ CCW and you are an AZ resident.

To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a UPN, there is however a UPIN (line #9 on the 4473).
A UPIN is not necessary on the 4473 form, even if you have a UPIN.
No way to say that if you have a UPIN and you write it on the form or if you have a UPIN and you do not write it on the form, whether you will be approved or rejected.

Bottom line..Buy a gun from a dealer in AZ, you have to fill out a 4473. Present a valid AZ (in AZ) CCW and proof of AZ residence and no NICS check is performed. When no NICS check is performed, nothing is called in. When nothing is called in, no UPIN (even if present on the form) is relayed to the NICS examiner.

Just to be clear on the other points... a UPIN identifier is not necessary on a 4473 even if you undergo a NICS check. It is just an added identifier, much like your SSN# (SSN# is not necessary either, but at times can eliminate most delays). As I mentioned above 99+% of the population does not have one. I personally do not know of anyone who does have one. I do not have one nor does my wife have one and she buys guns regularly.

[shooter444]

Goth'cha,... if you have a Az. CWP, there is no NICS check,... no NICS check means, there is absolutely no need for a UPIN number !!!

Which leads me to believe,... the statement, " Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN ",... is false.

thank you

[delta6]

Goth'cha,... if you have a Az. CWP, there is no NICS check,... no NICS check means, there is absolutely no need for a UPIN number !!!

Which leads me to believe,... the statement, " Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN ",... is false.

thank you

shooter:

" Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN ",... is false.

Stated this way, as above, you are 100% correct.

[Steve_In_29]

Unless flat out denied, it's about 3 days and the gun can be picked up, unless NICS calls dealer back and gives them a denied status. Most people that get a hold will get it every time (especially when not providing your social security number on the form). CWP/CCW is best way around the hassle.

I'm new to AZ but I know in CA despite the State's DROS paperwork asking for SSN, that there is no place to enter that number when submitting the NICS request to the Feds. Is the AZ version of NICS different?

[jcbrown]

You do not need a UPN. Unless you have been denied. If you have been denied, it is because your name is now flagged to reject your purchase. If you wish to avoid the rejection, the UPN identifies you specifically.

Why was i denied - an individual in NY had the exact same name & DOB and committed a violent felony. When processed by the fabulous justice in New York, they did not enter his SSN in the system the ATF uses. So, if I try to buy a gun, it will be rejected. With the UPN, there is no issue.

[shooter444]

You do not need a UPN. Unless you have been denied. If you have been denied, it is because your name is now flagged to reject your purchase. If you wish to avoid the rejection, the UPN identifies you specifically.

Why was i denied - an individual in NY had the exact same name & DOB and committed a violent felony. When processed by the fabulous justice in New York, they did not enter his SSN in the system the ATF uses. So, if I try to buy a gun, it will be rejected. With the UPN, there is no issue.

Morn'n jcbrown,... now, you are almost perfectly understandable, to me.

The problem I had with your first post,...

jcbrown wrote: ↑August 28th, 2018, 4:29 pm
Even with a CCW, you have to have the UPN. You still have to fill out the 4473, and it will be rejected without it. I've written my UPN on the back of my CCW so I have it when I buy.

..., was that you generalized and declared everyone with a "CCW" had to have a "UPN"
as well, to make a purchase. That just didn't fly for me.

Now, I see you are specifically referring to,...YOU,... not , everyone.

But, please help me out here, I am still a bit confused.

If you have a CWP why would you need to write your UPIN number on the back, when a Az. CWP will bypass the NICS check system. There won't be anyone checking your UPIN number when you use your Az CWP because there won't be anyone checking your Az. CWP purchase.

An Az. CWP automatically clears a buyer for purchase without a NICS check?

Confusing,... to say the least.

[Hansen]

CCW Applicants must:

- be a resident of this state or a United States citizen;

- be twenty-one years of age or older or is at least nineteen years of age and provides evidence of current military service or proof of honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States Armed Forces, United States Armed Forces Reserve or a State National Guard.

- not be under indictment for a felony offense;

- not be convicted of a felony offense, unless the conviction has been expunged, set aside, vacated or pardoned, or the individuals right to possess firearms has be restored AND the individual must not be a prohibited possessor under state or federal law.

- not suffer from mental illness and been adjudicated mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution;

- not be unlawfully present in the United States;

- complete a firearms safety training program pursuant to A.R.S. 13-3112.N.



Note: Persons who were born outside of the United States or one of its territories must send a copy of proof of citizenship or alien status. Any of the following documents are acceptable:

- Certificate of Naturalization
- Resident Alien Card
- Record of Birth Abroad to US citizens
- Record of Birth Abroad to Armed Forces Personnel
- US Passport

[Hansen]

If you have a CWP why would you need to write your UPIN number on the back, when a Az. CWP will bypass the NICS check system. There won't be anyone checking your UPIN number when you use your Az CWP because there won't be anyone checking your Az. CWP purchase.

I have never had to have A UPN sort of, They have always used the CCW # as the UPN. As it wasn't or ever been checked when I bought this way.

[delta6]

You do not need a UPN. Unless you have been denied. If you have been denied, it is because your name is now flagged to reject your purchase. If you wish to avoid the rejection, the UPN identifies you specifically.

Why was i denied - an individual in NY had the exact same name & DOB and committed a violent felony. When processed by the fabulous justice in New York, they did not enter his SSN in the system the ATF uses. So, if I try to buy a gun, it will be rejected. With the UPN, there is no issue.

What the heck is a UPN??????????????
Never heard of it.

[delta6]

.... paperwork asking for SSN, that there is no place to enter that number when submitting the NICS request to the Feds. Is the AZ version of NICS different?

It magically appears.....on the 4473... been there for decades and decades...