SBR and Suppressor on same Form 1?

[sharp]

Hi! I'm starting an AR9 build soon, so far I just have the receiver set (QC-10). I was planning on building as a pistol, with a brace, and getting a suppressor. However now I've been reading how the ATF is outlawing certain braces that were previously legal. So...I think I may be better off just building as SBR for the extra $200 and long wait. Question is, can I fill out paperwork one time, for both the SBR and the suppressor? Thanks!

 

[YNOTAZ]

Nope. Each one has to be stand alone, meaning each one has to be as if it were submitted by itself. The only savings you get is sending as many as you want in one envelope.

 

[QuietM4]

Form 1 E-file has a 30 day turnaround right now (You SBR your pistol on a Form 1).

No such luck for the Form 4 suppressor...10-12 months, at least.

 

[XJThrottle]

The efile F1 isn't a long wait. I've had them back in 11 days.

The ATF has been getting their collective chit together with regards to form 4s as well. My last one only took 91 days.

 

[superdrag67]

The efile F1 isn't a long wait. I've had them back in 11 days.

The ATF has been getting their collective chit together with regards to form 4s as well. My last one only took 91 days.

E-files have started to average closer to 20-30 days now and from what I've been told the ATF stopped whatever it was they were doing that was making certain people/groups get theirs processed quickly. There are still tons of people, myself included that are sitting at 6-10+ months and still waiting regardless of those that got processed in 3-4 months.

 

[Tim McBride]

You will find a small group of mostly HKs that the ATF allowed this on previously but, as far as I know, ATF no longer allows this for new manufacturer.

 

[baja]

..... However now I've been reading how the ATF is outlawing certain braces that were previously legal.....

I've heard/read nothing about this, can you post more info or a link?

 

[YNOTAZ]

I don't think it has anything to do with braces specifically, it is more how they changed measurement for overall length. This affects "pistols" with braces with vertical foregrips. The ATF was allowing the length to be determined with a folding or collapsing "brace" fully extended. Now they don't allow the "brace" to be used in calculating overall length. I don't have the memo but here is an article describing it.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...federal-registration-of-popular-short-rifles/

 

[TacMedic]

So this thread goes towards my question of what I’m working on right now. I’m glad that it was answered on the two separate forms.

I’m actually just planning on purchasing an SBR from CMMG (Banshee) because I’d rather just have it SBR instead of a pistol brace. I also plan on buying a suppressor for it, but I have not decided the specific one I want to purchase yet.

However the FFL I have used here in the past no longer does transfers or assists with the paperwork. Their business moved to a different type of business. The last time I did this, the paperwork was very easy because the Gun Shop did most of it for me.

I have my other FFL items on our family trust, and want to do that with this rifle and suppressor as well.

Is the process easiest to find an FFL (that will do the transfer/can hold NFA items), purchase the items from the dealers to ship to the FFL, and then once they arrive begin the process of the paperwork? I would assume this would have to be the process since you need the serial numbers to submit the paperwork to the ATF. However this means you need an FFL that’s willing to hang onto your items for up to a year.

So if all what I have put above is correct, who would be a good FFL in the Tucson/Marana area that could help me with this? if I have incorrect information above, could you please help me and straighten me out?

 

[YNOTAZ]

If you find a knowledgeable FFL that is still doing transfers, that will be the easiest. They can help you with the paperwork and understand that they have to hold the SBR and Suppressor until your tax stamps come back.

I have a suppressor in ATF jail and just tried something new. ATF told me I did not need to resubmit a copy of my trust if I had an item approved in the trust within the past 2 years. So I abbreviated the paperwork per one person in the NFA branch's instructions and I will see what happens.

If you have had anything approved in your trust within 2 years you may be able to do the same. I don't have results yet so, I can't say this works with 100% certainty.

Here is a link to the ATF's full form 4 packet. It isn't hard to fill out, especially if you have a recent submission to copy from. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...-registration-firearm-atf-form-53204/download

 

[QuietM4]

I’m actually just planning on purchasing an SBR from CMMG (Banshee) because I’d rather just have it SBR instead of a pistol brace. I also plan on buying a suppressor for it, but I have not decided the specific one I want to purchase yet.

Just so you are prepared, purchasing a "factory" SBR transfers on a Form 4, which takes 10-14 months. Purchasing a pistol version of the same firearm, then completing the SBR packet yourself on a Form 1 takes less than 2 months...usually less than 30 days.

The only difference is that you have to engrave the firearm with your name/trust name and location (since you are the "manufacturer". You won't get the firearm in your hands until the Form 4 clears...it lives in your dealers transfer jail. Form 1, on the other hand, you get the pistol immediately.

 

[TacMedic]

Thanks YNOATZ and QuietM4. I had considered just purchasing the pistol version and then changing out the butt stock, but for that they’re actually a little different. If it has to sit in ATF jail, I will just have to be patient.

It’s outrageous that doing one method takes longer than the other method. It shouldn’t matter, this paperwork should be extremely rapid with the quick check of my background, throw a stamp on it, cash my check. It’s outrageous that doing one method takes longer than the other method.

I wish my trust has been used within the last two years, but it’s been longer than that since I did it, so I guess I’ll have to send in the for trust paperwork again as well. Thank you for the advice, and I guess I’ve got over a year before I’ll be able to even see the gun/suppressor.

 

[QuietM4]

I had considered just purchasing the pistol version and then changing out the butt stock, but for that they’re actually a little different.

Not that different...build it using an SB Tactical SBA3 brace; uses a standard buffer tube. Get the stamp, pull off the SBA3 and put on any stock you want. Or just don't SBR it and use the SBA3...they really are quite comfortable.

It’s outrageous that doing one method takes longer than the other method. It shouldn’t matter, this paperwork should be extremely rapid with the quick check of my background, throw a stamp on it, cash my check. It’s outrageous that doing one method takes longer than the other method.

It's like you've never dealt with the ATF before... :roll:

 

[TacMedic]

I’ve dealt with the ATF a few times, and every time I think it’s outrageous.

I may have to do what you suggest, but I’ll still have to wait for the suppressor anyway, so one way or another the ATF gets me.

 

[QuietM4]

But with a pistol version, you can be shooting it while waiting for your suppressor to clear.

 

[YNOTAZ]

I also recommend the SBA3. You build it as a pistol, you can always SBR it later then return it to a pistol configuration with no stock and no SBA3 to sell it. As a pistol you can take it across state lines without filing with ATF first and you can sell it any time you want, allow anyone in your family to use and "control" it, and you saved $200 in taxes which pays for the SBA3.

I have several SBRs but my last unit is an AKV with an SBA3 on it.

 

[XJThrottle]

Thanks YNOATZ and QuietM4. I had considered just purchasing the pistol version and then changing out the butt stock, but for that they’re actually a little different. If it has to sit in ATF jail, I will just have to be patient.

It’s outrageous that doing one method takes longer than the other method. It shouldn’t matter, this paperwork should be extremely rapid with the quick check of my background, throw a stamp on it, cash my check. It’s outrageous that doing one method takes longer than the other method.

I wish my trust has been used within the last two years, but it’s been longer than that since I did it, so I guess I’ll have to send in the for trust paperwork again as well. Thank you for the advice, and I guess I’ve got over a year before I’ll be able to even see the gun/suppressor.

How is it different?

Both my SBRs were bought as pistol kits. They were never assembled as pistols tho. First one sat in the safe for the 2 weeks it took to get the stamp. The second one had the stamped lower before I even bought parts.

 

[TacMedic]

The pistol brace versus the specific stock they sell. It’s a very subtle and small difference probably not that important. I just like how minimal the stock they sell is, I’m sure I can probably find it somewhere and just put it on myself once I do the form one.

I’ll probably end up buying the pistol and then just changing the stock out once I get a form one done.

 

[QuietM4]

It's called the CMMG AR-15 RipStock...they sell the kit for $200.

Now, IMO, I'd rather buy the pistol version, then add the stock after I Form 1 the pistol. Yes, you would spend an extra $200, but it would be worth it since you couldn't have to wait a year before you can shoot the gun.

 

[TacMedic]

It's called the CMMG AR-15 RipStock...they sell the kit for $200.

Now, IMO, I'd rather buy the pistol version, then add the stock after I Form 1 the pistol. Yes, you would spend an extra $200, but it would be worth it since you couldn't have to wait a year before you can shoot the gun.

Just sent an email to the FFL, it seems like the pistols are very hard to get their hands on right now, their website says it’s a minimum of a 10 week wait anyway, but they have the SBR’s readily available. I will see how this plays out over the next few weeks as I try to arrange everything for the suppressor in the gun. No matter what I’m probably waiting over a year for just a suppressor too.

I appreciate all the help and feedback everybody! This forum always makes my decisions easier. I may not be a significant contributor, and mostly soak up knowledge, but I really appreciate it.